Cuba Is Not As Bad As You're Told To Think

[Section 8]

http://marxists.org/history/cuba/archive/c.../2003/05/01.htm

Imagine if it was purely communist, and the US didn't impose sanctions. It's the sanctions that kill, not the government.

Whilst I firmly believe Cuba could be a better place without Fidel - here is the real annoying bit of the recent verbal onslaught against the "evil" dictator: it´s not about Cuba, it has nothing to whatever with Cuba, it´s purely & squarely domestic US politics.

It is the preparation of the next presidential election. No chance in hell Cuba will be able to fight the US. Millions of Cubans in the US to go off & repopulate the island with friendly voices.

Is the USA going to sponsor Haïtians, Mexicans, Colombians that want to make an easy buck in the US to flee to Florida?

Let´s hope the successor to Fidel is not a Cuban variant of Baby Doc.

[Joe]

Cuba is not that bad you are right but they are a little crazy. You do not have much freedom over there you have to ask to do anything that is not cubin. I mean you can't even drink coke over there what the fuck kinda bull shit is that.

Cuba just needs to chill a little coke is not going to start any wars. Fidel is kinda like tomis Jefferson and the embargo acts man. He lets little or no products in AND out of the country that is one of the reasons they are not a very rich country. You need to trade with other countries to boost your economy. Cuba don't do that much.

They are so afraid of giving others money they forget that they would be giving them some too.

[RebelWithanAK]

Joe: It's called an embargo. We have an embargo on Cuba, hence they can't import nor export a lot of shit - including Coke, an American product. Where have YOU been the last 50 years?

[Joe]

That is what I was talking about. That they have embargos up the ass.

[Section 8]

It's an American forced embargo. They don't want them, but our government only wants capitalist governments.

[castille]

The American embargo should benefit the Cuban government.

After all, their "socialist paradise" shouldn't be doing evil capitalist things like trade.


So therefor, since Cuba is a socialist paradise, the embargo should have no affect on their economy whasoever, as they are all happy and self-suifficient (or so Castro propaganda claims).


A quote from Fidel addressing UNGA human rights concerns in 1992: "All Cubans are happy. Unlike the American Imperialists, we do not need luxuries such as television. All Cubans are happy and living better than any American citizen. There is no poverty or crime at all."

[G. Adams]

No, it shouldn't. Trade isn't a capitalist thing, its a human thing, neccesary for any state, as no country of Cuba's size can do everything it needs to alone. It is profit making (going to an individual or small group of individuals, ie the owners of a business rather than the workers) that socialism objects to.

And he's right about the poverty and crime. Very near poverty perhaps, but good educations and ensuring everyone has the neccesities of life is all there in Cuba. This means no-one has to turn to crime. Except the terrorists there of course. But happy? I doubt it. Many may be content, but more will be apathetic about their life. In a poll reported in the Guardian most of the population didn't care either way, while those that did were split roughly 50/50 into supporters and haters of the system.

I'd hate to see Cuba collapse. Then all those evil socialist things like sending world class trained doctors out to slums around the Americas and Africa would end. And I'd like to point out again that Cuba has more doctors working around the world than the UN, and that would stop if Cuba became a Western, liberal democracy.

[castille]

But why would Cuba want to accept evil American dollars and evil American capitalism and evil American investors?


The embargo is saving them from the terror of capitalism! Now they can experience the Communist Utopia without having American investors running around!

[G. Adams]

Damn your ignorant.

The central problem for Cuba with the embargo is that it cannot import many goods cheaply, as it would if its neighbour would open up. These goods include medicines. Cuba doesn't need a McDonalds, but it does need access to important things that it doesn't possess. And Cuba could be exporting dirt cheap sugar to the US simply because Cuba is perhaps the most perfect country for growing it. But no trade is gonna happen until the US gets compensated for all its rich who were kicked out and lost land.

[castille]

Cuba imported plenty of missiles from the Soviet Union. They also imported cheap food from China.

As a Communist state that has repeatly denounced the United States, why should the US give anything to such a rude country? Cuba has done nothing to deserve US pity - and in fact, the frequent verbal tantrums by Castro is simply alienating the Americans.

Let Castro create his Communist utopia. He has enough friends. The Soviet Union gave him plenty (after all the Communist "Brotherhood" is strong!). As long as he continues to attack capitalism, I doubt any capitalist is going to be happy sending him aid.


Maybe if Castro allows some form of free elections without rigging them or sending his secret police to execute protestors....the US might just be made happier.

[RebelWithanAK]

Are you done with the rhetoric, yet?.... Okay, good.

Pity does not work with capitalism. It's just GOOD BUSINESS SENSE to have as many trading partners as is possible. If that isn't reason enough to lift the embargo, how about the fact that it's been on for 50 years and has failed utterly miserably to oust Fidel Castro? It's done nothing but make the country terribly poor. Now, you ask, why haven't the people ousted Castro? Because a lot of them like him. Cuba's short of medicine, but it's not short of doctors. What medicine there is is free and available for all. Cuba exports more doctors than the UN. That's far more than we can say. Their people keep leaving because there are NO JOBS in Cuba, because there is NO TRADE with Cuba. Their most pressing problems are imposed on them by the US!

[castille]

Well, why does Castro want to trade with big evil capitalistic American companies?

According to Castro, capitalism is evil.

So logically, he should not want to trade with capitalists.


If somebody criticises me every second of the day, why should I trade with him?

If somebody denounces my beliefs as evil, stupid, and horrible, I am not obliged to trade with him.



The United States is not obliged to trade with dictators. They are not obliged to trade with countries who continually launch verbal attacks against them.


If Castro wants American trade, then he should learn to stop criticising their system. He can still criticise specific US policies, but saying "the Americans are evil capitalistic imperialistic bastards" doesnt do much for his cause.

[fedfem]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,)
Well, why does Castro want to trade with big evil capitalistic American companies?

According to Castro, capitalism is evil.

So logically, he should not want to trade with capitalists.


If somebody criticises me every second of the day, why should I trade with him?

If somebody denounces my beliefs as evil, stupid, and horrible, I am not obliged to trade with him.



The United States is not obliged to trade with dictators. They are not obliged to trade with countries who continually launch verbal attacks against them.


If Castro wants American trade, then he should learn to stop criticising their system. He can still criticise specific US policies, but saying "the Americans are evil capitalistic imperialistic bastards" doesnt do much for his cause.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>



Castro says no such thing. Do you have a source for that?

[castille]

No, of course not. Why would I need a source for Castro's basic philosophy?


As I said, the US is free to trade with who they like. If they don't like Cuba, thats their choice.

Nobody can actually force the US to trade with Cuba. That would be illegal and in breach of every international law. It would be evil, imperialistic, and something thats never happened since the 1900s (unless you count the Soviet demands on Eastern Europe).

[Section 8]

So, are you saying that it's the US choice to kill innocent Cubans. Because the embargo has that effect.

[PatrickHenry]

Indeed, why is the nation of the People's Republic of China such a favored trading partner, and Cuba is off limits for visits or investment by US citizens?

Is the answer is that Cuba has had success as a revolutionary communist nation? The statistics Castro quoted are impressive. Are they true? Granted that all leaders slant their public speeches toward their audiences, are these quotes substantially true?

"It defeated the dirty war that spread throughout the entire country, at a cost in human lives even greater than that of the war of liberation. It stoically endured thousands of acts of sabotage and terrorist attacks organized by the U.S. government. It thwarted hundreds of assassination plots against the leaders of the Revolution. While under a rigorous blockade and economic warfare that have lasted for almost half a century, Cuba was able to eradicate in just one year the illiteracy that has still not been overcome in the course of more than four decades by the rest of the countries of Latin America, or the United States itself. It has brought free education to 100% of the country’s children. It has the highest school retention rate –over 99% between kindergarten and ninth grade– of all of the nations in the hemisphere. Its elementary school students rank first worldwide in the knowledge of their mother language and mathematics. Infant mortality has been reduced from 60 per 1000 live births to a rate that fluctuates between 6 and 6.5, which is the lowest in the hemisphere, from the United States to Patagonia. Life expectancy has increased by 15 years. Infectious and contagious diseases like polio, malaria, neonatal tetanus, diphtheria, measles, rubella, mumps, whooping cough and dengue have been eradicated; others like tetanus, meningococcal meningitis, hepatitis B, leprosy, hemophilus meningitis and tuberculosis are fully controlled. Today, in our country, people die of the same causes as in the most highly developed countries: cardiovascular diseases, cancer, accidents, and others, but with a much lower incidence. A profound revolution is underway to bring medical services closer to the population, in order to facilitate access to health care centers, save lives and alleviate suffering. In-depth research is being carried out to break the chain, mitigate or reduce to a minimum the problems that result from genetic, prenatal or childbirth-related causes. Cuba is today the country with the highest number of doctors per capita in the world, with almost twice as many as those that follow closer. Our scientific centers are working relentlessly to find preventive or therapeutic solutions for the most serious diseases. Cubans will have the best healthcare system in the world, and will continue to receive all services absolutely free of charge. Discrimination against women was eradicated, and today women make up 64% of the country’s technical and scientific workforce. From the earliest months of the Revolution, not a single one of the forms of racial discrimination copied from the south of the United States was left intact. There is no cult of personality around any living revolutionary, in the form of statues, official photographs, or the names of streets or institutions. The leaders of this country are human beings, not gods. In our country there are no paramilitary forces or death squads, nor has violence ever been used against the people. There are no executions without due process and no torture. The people have always massively supported the activities of the Revolution. Over 2000 heroic Cuban internationalist combatants gave their lives fulfilling the sacred duty of supporting the liberation struggles for the independence of other sister nations. However, there is not one single Cuban property in any of those countries. No other country in our era has exhibited such sincere and selfless solidarity. Cuba has always preached by example. It has never given in. It has never sold out the cause of another people. It has never made concessions. It has never betrayed its principles. There must be some reason why, just 48 hours ago, it was reelected by acclamation in the United Nations Economic and Social Council to another three years in the Commission on Human Rights, of which it has now been a member for 15 straight years. More than half a million Cubans have carried out internationalist missions as combatants, as teachers, as technicians or as doctors and health care workers. Tens of thousands of the latter have provided their services and saved millions of lives over the course of more than 40 years. There are currently 3000 specialists in Comprehensive General Medicine and other healthcare personnel working in the most isolated regions of 18 Third World countries. Through preventive and therapeutic methods they save hundreds of thousands of lives every year, and maintain or restore the health of millions of people, without charging a penny for their services. Without the Cuban doctors offered to the United Nations in the event that the necessary funds are obtained –without which entire nations and even whole regions of sub-Saharan Africa face the risk of perishing– the crucial programs urgently needed to fight AIDS would be impossible to carry out."

Which of the above statements are lies, or so skewed as to amount to the same thing? If Castro's statements are substantially true, is there a concealed agenda here? Is the real reason for embargo and travel restriction for US citizens because we might see the revolution for ourselves? Because the disinformation of the US establishment would be exposed? Even young Cubans want to travel back to their family's homeland. What is the justification for not allowing investment or travel?

The US government would not be so cynical as to try to manipulate public opinion over something as trivial as a successful commie government, would it?

[Mr.Vicchio]

There is NOTHING good about Cuba right now. Its a country run by a sick dictator, its a place where human rights are a joke, a place where people are told how to vote, how to think, what to say and what to do...

Its sad and the embargo is just and needs stay till Communist Cuba falls.

[castille]

Indeed, why is the nation of the People's Republic of China such a favored trading partner, and Cuba is off limits for visits or investment by US citizens?

Er....you do realise that its illegal to conduct trade in Communist nations right? So the embargo is HELPING Castro conduct his grand Anti-Capitalist paradise.


And if Cuba is a Workers Paradise....who are those thousands of Cuban refugees who risk everything to travel to America?

As a matter of curiosity, how many posters to this thread have any first hand knowledge of Cuba (I.E. Have lived or at least visited Cuba)?