Cuba Is Not As Bad As You're Told To Think

[PatrickHenry]

Thanks PeterWolf. That was the first response to my post since I resurrected it from the trash at the bottom of the pile. Do you think that the US keeps abusing Cuba for any specific reason? I mean China doesn't get the constant drubbing Cuba endures. Why?
Does the US still think it can reverse the revolution? Maybe because of the collapse of Russian communism, it thinks people in Cuba will also repudiate their revolution? Possible?

Anything is possible, but the US shot itself in the foot long ago by supporting Batista. People in the US don't get it, but the revolution has been far kinder to the people than was Batista. In the peoples view, the revolution was a liberator, not an oppressor.

The word about Raoul as I mention is that he will lead Cuba to democracy or at least a more democratic situation, but much is enshrined in law now and may or may not be difficult to change.

Possibly the US simply doesn't like having Cuba, a socialist state sitting 60 miles off its coast and being more successful than many other nations in Central America and the Caribean basin. Of course, as I point out earlier the US had a lot to do with Central America. And a lot of that was literaly either direct, direct or indirect support of thuggery. Yet, the Noble Prize, awarded for bringing peace and democracy to Central America, certainly wasn't given to a citizen of the United States, though he is by literal definition, an American, as is any inhabitant of the Americas.

But for whatever reason and whatever chance of success, I doubt the US will stop trying, especially not when there is such a large block of votes in Florida.

BTW, the act of Fidel of sending the Cuban criminals to the US gets a smile in Cuba and the joke about why Cuba is a safe country is told in many places.

And more than any single reason why the US keeps after Fidel, it may be because he has simply outsmarted the US on many occasions, and that, must piss those good ole boys off to the hilt.

One thing that I have always wondered about the US governments attitude to communism is its stark fear of it. If communism is so evil, such a failure and so bad, why indeed is it so feared?

Do people really think the US, so proud of its post colonial history will simply roll over and adopt communism? Hah, unlikely, so why the fear?

[PatrickHenry]

The official rhetoric is that capitalism is the only system that works. Based upon certain criteria, this is true. By other measures, it is patently a lie. That is the reason for my interest in Cuba. I wonder about a committed socialist system and its ability to provide for the populace' basic needs, something that wasn't being taken care of by Batista. If indeed Cuba has been able to accomplish much of what Castro was patting himself on the back for, then maybe Cuba is more of a threat than it would seem to our deeply flawed system. Restricting travel would help prevent the word from filtering back to the US.

On travel restrictions, as far as I am aware, it is legal for US citizens to travel to Cuba (obviously, no direct flights from the US however) but what is illegal for US citizens to do is spend money in Cuba. I think that is how it works.

And, I don't know if I could qualify Cuban system as being more successful than the US system. One of the issues of course is sheer scale of economy. One of the oft cited reasons though for the US wish to invade Iraq was Saddam wanted to do business in the Euro (in fact I think he did) and if the standard for oil transactions is changed from the US dollar to the Euro, many maintain the US position would become quite precarious. Russia for example have also threatened to use the Euro and I seem to recal OPEC have made noises about it.

In pure financial terms, the US probably beats Cuba hands down, in terms of quality of life (if one doesn't define it by owning two cars, microwave, TV's in every room etc) Cuba probably wins. Hard to say which is better, but if capitalism demands infinite growth, there's a rather obvious flaw, communism and socialism go wrong because they fail to deal with the human want for getting ahead of the pack. Somewhere in the middle, i.e. democratic socialism, probably lies the best balance between the needs of the state and the needs of the individual. That's what I suspect Cuba will become.

[dismal]

Originally posted by PeterWolf, In pure financial terms, the US probably beats Cuba hands down, in terms of quality of life (if one doesn't define it by owning two cars, microwave, TV's in every room etc) Cuba probably wins. Hard to say which is better

Probably? Why do you think so many Cuban girls are willing to prostitute themselves to tourists for 5 or 10 dollars?

Why do you think Cuba doesn't let its citizens freely travel?

This to me is the ultimate test. When a country builds walls to keep its people in, one needs to question its quality of life.

I see lots of fat and happy non-Cubans talking about how great things are in Cuba, and I see lots of Cubans risking the sharks on rickety rafts and floating cars to try and get the hell out.

Maybe Fidel would trade us all the Cubans that want to get out for the Americans and Canadians that think the Cuban quality of life is better than ours. We'd both be better off, I think.

[Gorgo]

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/1985----.htm

QUESTION [from May 1985]: Why is it impossible for Latin American nations to be sovereign and live free from interference by the United States?
CHOMSKY: Well, it's impossible because they can't live in the shadow of a violent and sadistic superpower that is committed to domination and control. The United States is committed to ensuring that the resources of Latin America are available for the American economy in the manner in which the American economy desires them. This is part of a global pattern, but of course, the imprint is heaviest on the Caribbean Basin, where the influence of American power has been greatest for the longest period.

If we ask ourselves why the United States is so fussed about Cuba, the answer is the same. The answer is given very clearly by some simple statistics. For example, there was recently a study by the Overseas Development Council, which puts out a "quality of life index" every year compiled on the basis of mortality rate, infant mortality, life expectancy, and literacy. This is for the world. I think the top countries are places like Iceland and Japan, then you go down to the Scandinavian countries and then you get to the United States, which had a rating of 97 in their index. And Canada is about the same, a little higher. The next country in North America is Cuba: 95. Then you have to go down to 89 before you start reaching the rich Latin American countries. Well, any country that is that high on the quality of life index -- that is, highest in its achievements in health standards, reducing infant mortality, increasing life expectancy, increasing literacy -- obviously that country is an enemy. I mean, it must be that they are using their resources for their purposes, not for our purposes. And therefore we are going to destroy them.

In the case of Cuba, the United States has done everything it can to drive them into the hands of the Russians -- to ensure that there is a maximum amount of internal repression and brutality inside Cuba to reduce the possibility that it could be a model for anyone else. But there is still this tremendously threatening development. While throughout the whole region that the United States supports and backs, you have torture, murder, starvation, slave labor, and so on and so forth, there is one little corner of Latin America that has actually come to match the standard of living of the United States, which is astonishing. This is the richest country in the world, by any possible measure. Cuba is one of the poorest countries in the world and it has approximately the same quality of life index, in terms of health and so on, that the United States has. That's really scary and that's an enemy. That's what they mean when they say, "We can't tolerate another Cuba." It is bad enough that there is one country that can serve as a model for this kind of development. Suppose there were two, suppose there were three. ...

Originally posted by dismal,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dismal,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-PeterWolf, In pure financial terms, the US probably beats Cuba hands down, in terms of quality of life (if one doesn't define it by owning two cars, microwave, TV's in every room etc) Cuba probably wins. Hard to say which is better

Probably? Why do you think so many Cuban girls are willing to prostitute themselves to tourists for 5 or 10 dollars?

Why do you think Cuba doesn't let its citizens freely travel?

This to me is the ultimate test. When a country builds walls to keep its people in, one needs to question its quality of life.

I see lots of fat and happy non-Cubans talking about how great things are in Cuba, and I see lots of Cubans risking the sharks on rickety rafts and floating cars to try and get the hell out.

Maybe Fidel would trade us all the Cubans that want to get out for the Americans and Canadians that think the Cuban quality of life is better than ours. We'd both be better off, I think.[/b][/quote]

Um, you have the prices wrong. But maybe you are talking about the Cubans in Miami.

Actually, Cubans are permitted to travel, the major obstacle for them is cost.

Of course, how many have you seen trying to get out in the last 5 years? I've seen plenty of people leave the US as well, they can afford the tickets, the Cubans cant.

The idea is cute, write Fidel and ask. I'm sure he would find it an equitable and happy trade.

And tell me, what do women charge in your country for prostituting themselves to tourists?

Oh, and I forgot, but tell me, why does the US not permit its citizens to travel to Cuba, direct from Miami? Is there some reason the US tries to restrict the travel of its citizens?

[jose]

I went to Cuba with my wife and our kids two years ago we had a great time really friendly people we rented a car and drove around for ten days staying in bed and breakfast accomadation with cuban familys for $10 to $15 a night everything cuban is so cheap a meal for four in a chinese restaurant came to $2.50 including local beer
if you want imported stuff like coke or pepsi{from mexico} you'll pay a doller a can and if you give someone an imported item or a poloroid photo you make thier day, health care is good and free same as education to university level imagine that FREE. public transport is shabby but people hitch and pay towards gas. Cuba is one of the safest countrys i've ever visited and i've been to 38 including USA. I personally think the GOV. dos;'t want you to see the good things in being different to US