Cuba Is Not As Bad As You're Told To Think

[dotcoma]

"Cuba Is Not As Bad As You're Told To Think"

No, I have stated in other posts that NAMBLA has a right to exist and express their twisted opinions, they just don't have the right boink little boys.

roxdog

Personally, I agree on NAMBLA, as distasteful as I find them, but they are only one small part of that subject. However I don't see grown men bonking little boys as any different than bonking little girls. It's all abuse.

You however don't answer the question about your claiming that I'm a Fidel apologist. Though I would have to agree that Cuba is not as bad as you are told to think, I wasn't the one who started the thread either. So, want to try again?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Cuba is a communist country.

How many stories do you hear of journalist being arrested (local not international), political dissadints... wasnt that shoot down a few years back a good example of the hate there?

I know, lets list all the GOOD things we know and then list all the BAD things we know from various web sites on how life is in Cuba.

Then maybe we can debate the merits of it?

I agree that life in Cuba is not as bad as it used to be. Nor do I believe it is, or was, a true communist state. I believer Castro is just another Bannana Republic tyrant who used communist rhetoric to gather support in the early days of his revolution, and then support from the former Soviet Union. As dismal points out, market reforms followed the economic tanking that ensued after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and ending of Castro's support. Castro, like any self-serving dictator, loosened restrictions on private enterprise because he needed the revenue, and didn't want his people to revole.
I'm looking forward to the day that bearded bastard finally starts pushing up daisies. I envision a Berlin Wallesque scenario with people dancing in the streets of Havanna as they finally rid themselves of the police state that is currently Cuba. Then I'll plan a trip to go scuba diving off Cuba's shores and see if their cigars are really as great as billed.

[Ross]

How do you know for certain that Cuba will suddenly become free once Castro dies?
Couldn't some jerk step up into the power vacuum and take the reigns?

Sure a successor could step into Castro's place. I am simply remembering how the Soviet Union Fell. The citizens of the various countries under the FSU, simply decided they'd had enough, went out into the streets and said no more. It's what I hope will happen, not necessarily a prediction.

[dismal]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, I know, lets list all the GOOD things we know and then list all the BAD things we know from various web sites on how life is in Cuba.

Well, I hear the prostitutes are cheap and plentiful. I could post links, but they wouldn't be work friendly. An interesting google project for you all.

Couldn't some jerk step up into the power vacuum and take the reigns?

Really, what sort of dictator would Fidel be if he didn't already have a relative designated as his successor.

Fidel has a 73 year old brother Rauol who is designated to take over.

Er, I mean assuming he gets elected...

Well, All I can assume from the lack of responses about first hand knowledge of Cuba is that not one of you have ever been to Cuba or are from Cuba. Try visiting it sometime, you might find the perception versus the reality are quite different. Of course, if you're an American, you will have to fly via a 3rd party nation. But don't worry, they won't stamp your passport in Cuba.

[Evil Baby]

Originally posted by PeterWolf, Well, All I can assume from the lack of responses about first hand knowledge of Cuba is that not one of you have ever been to Cuba or are from Cuba. Try visiting it sometime, you might find the perception versus the reality are quite different. Of course, if you're an American, you will have to fly via a 3rd party nation. But don't worry, they won't stamp your passport in Cuba.

Err, from what I have heard from people I know who have visited Cuba it is a very beautiful place. The problem is that tourist are only allowed in certain areas of the country. These areas have been doen up nice and pretty by Fidel to give off a sort of illusion.


Although I consider myself left wing as most of my views are I can never fully agree witha dictator runed Communist party(even though that doesn't make any real sense). I like the direction that China is starting to take and I hope it works out for them. That would probably be the best example for Cuba. They can be a very socialist state but still allow limited amounts of Capitalism.


However I'd love to see Cuba come up with the cure to A.I.D.S. That would be freaken hilarious. I wonder what the U.S. would do then????

Evil Baby

No restrictions on the movements of tourists that I am aware of. I have spoken to people that have cycled round the island for months. About the only thing that is a no no is taking pictures of military installations, and I assume that means inside a base.

[Evil Baby]

Well maybe you're friends bought a better package :)

I don't know, maybe the rules have been laxed in the last little while because from what I've been told it was the other way.

Evil Baby,

My friends (one of whom is American) bought the cheapest. They didn't have a lot of money, which is why they were cycling round.
I've met some English people who also holidayed in Cuba, and they also reported no travel restrictions. I have met a couple of other Americans who have ventured to Cuba, they have quite adventurous natures though, I last saw them after they had returned from Columbia, Peru and Bolovia. Only other Americans I know who have been to Cuba went, and I quote, "for the whores".

Oh, and it might or might not surprise you, but tourism is Cuba's biggest industry these days, it has surpassed even sugar. Cuba is also renowned as one of the safest tourist destinations in the world.

Umm, if Cuba is so great....

Why does Papa Fidel forbid people to leave the island 'paradise'?

[Evil Baby]

Originally posted by PeterWolf, Evil Baby, My friends (one of whom is American) bought the cheapest. They didn't have a lot of money, which is why they were cycling round. I've met some English people who also holidayed in Cuba, and they also reported no travel restrictions. I have met a couple of other Americans who have ventured to Cuba, they have quite adventurous natures though, I last saw them after they had returned from Columbia, Peru and Bolovia. Only other Americans I know who have been to Cuba went, and I quote, "for the whores". Oh, and it might or might not surprise you, but tourism is Cuba's biggest industry these days, it has surpassed even sugar. Cuba is also renowned as one of the safest tourist destinations in the world.

Well it is news to me taht there are no restictions on travel. I was under the impression there was, maybe it was just a long time ago. Anywho from what I understand where the tourist usually stay it is extremly nice but out of that area, so I guess once you leave it goes down hill fairly quick. However "Communist" countries have a different way to gaging poverty. I don't know how many if any die of hunger each year, or don't have what they need to live. I do know that he violates human rights from time to time(I don't know how often) and keeps an iron fist on communication which is why I can't stand dictators.


As for the tourism I did know that. It is one of either one, two, or three countries that take Canadian money at par which is great. That is where I am probably going to send my parnets for thier 25th year anniversy just because it is so cheap.

I would imagine travel restrictions are no longer necessary in Cuba for two reasons.
1. Anyone inclined to disagree with Castro, and cause trouble a tourist might witness, is either in Florida, or prison.
2. Cuban society has improved dramatically since Castro loosened economic restrictions in the early 1990s.

[commonsense]

Cuban broads are HOT!

[castille]

Haha Cuba is carrying out capitalist reforms.

I guess capitalism IS the best philosophy after all....Fidel is probably trying to find a way to save face.

Well, it's been an interesting thread, interesting in that it shows that few if any of the posters know much about Cuba or at least, the reality of Cuba.

In case you are curious, I have visited Cuba and had quite a look around. Nice enough country, certainly isn't perfect, the people are nice and well educated. Certainly, not all you read about Cuba is true.

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by PeterWolf, Well, it's been an interesting thread, interesting in that it shows that few if any of the posters know much about Cuba or at least, the reality of Cuba. In case you are curious, I have visited Cuba and had quite a look around. Nice enough country, certainly isn't perfect, the people are nice and well educated. Certainly, not all you read about Cuba is true.

Any comment on my post? truth or lies?

PatrickHenry,

The information you quoted, is largely the same story as told in Cuba, some of it at least is proven simply by seeing what they claimed, for example, literacy, health and education. On the other hand, due to the likes of trade embargoes there are shortages of things such as medicines for children. Healthcare in Cuba is best in prevention rather than cure. The people remain poor in terms of money, but have reasonable lives. I didn't see a single person suffering from malnutrition, quite the opposite in fact.

As to how many plots have been thwarted, hard to say. I will tell you though that in Cuba, the Bay of Pigs is claimed as a victory over the United States, as is the missile crisis, given the guarantee the United States signed (which is my pick, that the agreement was the actual ambition of the missiles being located in Cuba).

Certainly Cuban's did indeed support nations in their endeavours to become socialist type nations. There was also a lot of FUD spread about the Cuban troops in Africa as well, the other teams were at least equally as bad and more colonial or dictatorial in their ambitions. The revolution in Cuba remains popular to this day, Cubans in the main consider themselves free.

Summing up on your comments, the United States has had a bad attitude to Cuba for a very long time, think back to what caused the US invasion in what was it, 1903 or there abouts. Shades of Bush II.

Whether the US actually tries to mislead on Cuba is arguable, though I tend to think it does. The reason Castro and his revolution is hated is probably much the same as the revolutions by the leftists in Central America were hated (I've spent a lot of time in Central America too, and there's a not too disimilar story to be told about that). In short, it comes down to two words, "land reform". In almost every case of this nature, you will find that US business interests have bought into countries big time, generally through dictators or military juntas. The leftists tended to preach land reform and taking back what had been sold out from under the people by their rulers, without the consent of the people. That of course endangered US business interests. Hell, take a good look at the history of Nicaragua, it's quite obvious if one goes back to where the US interest really started with a pirate named William Walker.

An oft cited example the US has used about Cuba is that Cuba has never paid out to anyone for the businesses and resources it nationalized after the revolution. Which is actually true, but it also misleading. Cuba has on numerous occasions offered to pay, but the US has refused to take the money, which is in the billions. I'm sure you get the idea.

I'm certain there are at least some human rights abuses in Cuba, I'm certain there is at least some stifling of political dissent. The real question is how much. The US would arrest those in the pay of foreign nations attemtping to cause political problems or promote revolution in the same manner that Cuba has. The US has now also shown under Bush it has no issue with incarceration without charge, and without public trial etc.

Cuba certainly isn't perfect, it isn't all good, but it's a fairly nice place. The ironies I found in Cuba that I remember best, one of the waiters in my hotel discussing Australian and Cuban politics with me. He gies on overseas holidays when he can afford them. Certainly, he could have been a plant, but with one exception (a taxi driver) no one I met had any qualms about talking politics with me, international or Cuban. The general opinion of Castro was really neither here nor there as such. The real cult of personality appears to this day to be "el che". His death is yet another story that has much question of US involvement surrounding it.

Also, sitting in my hotel reading the NYT and watching US cartoons on Satellite TV was ironic, when one can't use a US credit card in Cuba. You'll still find people claiming you can't take US publications such as newspapers in to Cuba, hogswaddle. One of my bags carried plenty and I carried a copy of Time under my arm entering the country.

Mosy heavily guarded building in Cuba, the American Mission, it's surrounded by Cuban police (I mean like a policeman every two yards), everyday apparently. Quite a site.

The only problem of any sort I encountered in Cuba was when leaving the country, customs officials had me taken aside and went through one of my bags. It was an amusing scene, a member of the airport staff (not police and I never saw any active military in Cuba except around a military base) went through the airport looking for me, stopping people to ask if they were Mr Wolf. When he found me he simply explained that customs wished to look through one of my bags and would I report to customs, he explained where to go and I was left to find my own way to customs. Xray had shown some interesting things in my bag. I had enough electronic equipment to make James Bond a little envious but all it took for them was to look through it (the plane was delayed while my bag was searched) and make sure it was all pretty much normal stuff, spare batteries for laptops and cameras, an ethernet switch, spare laptop, pdas, chargers, cables, video camera and spare 35mm camera, cell phones and so on. No worries at all.

I'd recomend Cuba as a tourist destination to anyone, it's safe, affordable, beautiful countryside, really nice people, great music, in fact the arts in general are stunning, architecture in Havana is superb, though the whole damn city needs a coat of paint and of course, steeped in history. Don't forget to try the cigars of course, find a street vendor and have them roll you one while you wait. You don't need to bribe anyone though you might also find things don't happen at the pace you might like them too.