New "heat beam" weapons make war-fighting humane

[fushigi]

I just read (again) about the Active Denial System (ADS) weapons designed for the military; it's "the first non-lethal, directed-energy, counter-personnel system with an extended range greater than fielded non-lethal weapons." For those who don't know, it sends a beam of microwave energy into your body that causes extreme pain. The pain then ends when the weapon is discharged, and there is no permanent damage:

The feeling is an illusion. No one is harmed. The beam's energy waves penetrate just one-sixty-fourth of an inch into your body, heating your skin like microwaves. They inflame your nerve endings without actually burning you. This could be the future of warfare: less bloodshed, more pain. <snip> Years of work have gone into making the beam safe. It's been tested thousands of times on 600 volunteers. It's been reviewed and revised by a human-effects review board, a human-effects advisory panel, and military surgeons general. It's been tested for effects on skin cancer, fertility, jewelry, and drunks. The results have been published in peer-reviewed journals.

And why stop at warfare? Think of law enforcement. A suspect is running away from you, and may be armed? Why shoot him? Just hit him with a little ADS love and he'll drop to his knees in pain.

Soon there'll be no more need for rape whistles or pepper spray. When you give your daughter the gift of ADS, you give her the freedom to go where she pleases at much lower risk.

Home defense will be more effective or safe than ever before. Now you can "shoot first AND ask questions later," after you've immobilized the suspect with a ray of blinding pain, making him run away or collapse to the ground where he can easily be detained. Plus, no more messy lawsuits after you kill an intruder!

You can see a clip here of the weapon being tested on some Air Force recruits and a journalist (allegedly - I couldn't play the .wmv). This Slate article talks about other non-lethal weapons of the future, such as "acoustic hailing devices," which uses sound waves to paralyze the target, and stun guns. Very cool stuff.

The ADS system

[tman_ndsu08]

Sounds great in theory.

What is the range?


Also, how easy is it going to be to build a counter to this device?



Very interesting legal implications as well.


Now, just because you can't kill a person with this device, does that mean you should never be punished for firing it at someone?

And how do you prove is someone fired it at you? Does it leave temporary marks?

[Osborn F Enready]

I saw this on future weapons, and don't see this as a positive step at all.

Since when is torture more humane than a clean kill?




OHhh yea, right after nations and people started pressing charges and seeking payout for wrongful deaths......

Now they can just use more force, with LESS discretion...... not a good thing.

[5010]

If you shoot a pain-ray at an enemy troop carrying a machine gun, what prevents him from firing at you?

[tman_ndsu08]

Pain?

[5010]

I doubt it. Seems to me like an expensive alternative to a can of bear spray.

[fushigi]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 What is the range?

It's got a longer range than any current conventional non-lethal weapon, since it's unaffected by wind and travels as UV energy. One day it'll be able to be fired from any range, space even.

Quote by: tman Now, just because you can't kill a person with this device, does that mean you should never be punished for firing it at someone?

Good question. I think no - someone could be punished for firing it at someone, for psychological/emotional damages. (After all, the only thing being harmed is your CNS from the shock of pain.

Quote by: tman And how do you prove is someone fired it at you? Does it leave temporary marks?

It doesn't leave any marks at all. The proof would be testimony and hearsay. It'd be a very difficult case to prove IMO.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I saw this on future weapons, and don't see this as a positive step at all. Since when is torture more humane than a clean kill?

Which would YOU prefer? Intense pain for a limited amount of time, or premature death?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Some people don't think governments should have any power to use force under any circumstance.

The problem with this as a "police" weapon currently is size, maybe some day,but right now, that thing is huge.

[fushigi]

It could be an effective and non-damaging means to disperse protesters, that's for sure. The journalist in the article said getting hit by it made him feel like his jacket had burst into flames.

I'd rather have the riot police using this than rubber bullets, tear gas, water cannons or string ball grenades - those cause lasting damage sometimes.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: fushigi It doesn't leave any marks at all. The proof would be testimony and hearsay. It'd be a very difficult case to prove IMO.

So say I fire the gun at you, causing you great pain over the course of several weeks.


How are you going to sue me?

[rcne]

I like this weapon. Given a little time to tweak this apparatus in power and shrink it in size to make it handheld. The bad guys will be toast!
(both literally and figuratively)

[tman_ndsu08]

How much energy does it need for a firing?

Maybe cops could weak batter packs on their belts or something.

[Mr.Vicchio]

From what I recall, it requires some serious juice to make this bad boy work, and the antenna is fairly large as well, too big to carry around.

[rcne]

Think of the power required and size of the first TV's or microwave ovens or computers, then think of a razor phone with net access and the streaming network video of today.

Economy of scale, now its just a technology development to make this portable.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Well when that happens it will be a good thing :)

[rmnunez]

Portability is the problem, but the range must be maintained. If this thing can beam a ray 500 metres and be made the size of a rifle... Meanwhile the one mounted on a humvee will work, it has the mobility and could be used effectively against the Iranian style massed infantry assaults.

[PatrickHenry]

Given what I know of the "authorities" who will ultimately be the owners of these systems, I view this with great trepidation. It is non lethal, but it is force.

I don't ascribe good intentions to those who possess high technology at present. I think that non-lethal technology is a double-edged sword. It avoids bloodshed and death, but it encourages using force against opponents that may be peaceful and seeking resolution to problems, ie. mass meetings.

Overall my question is this. Will it augment centralized power over our lives or will it allow us, "the People" to be freer?

BTW, it is the perfect torture device. I am sure the CIA is thrilled. :(

[gw120]

Well this is a hell of a lot better than just blowing people up, seeing as they don't die, and can be pin pointed at a person instead of hitting an entire neighborhood. But as for you saying people using this there are two problems. First, the thing is huge, not something you can exactly carry around in your purse, and secondly it's probably reeeally expensive. Just give women tasers, smaller, cheaper, and hurt less.

[Osborn F Enready]

Fushigi said: Which would YOU prefer? Intense pain for a limited amount of time, or premature death?

If I am at war, I am there to die for what I believe in, if the need be.

This is just another attempt at perfecting force to be used against our own, without fear of claims of "threat or lethal force" being used.

One more step towards a police state.

Vic said: Some people don't think governments should have any power to use force under any circumstance.

Exactly. Aren't those people entitled to equal representation in the debate Fushigi?

Fushigi said: I'd rather have the riot police using this than rubber bullets, tear gas, water cannons or string ball grenades - those cause lasting damage sometimes.

Maybe the government should be communicating with protesters, instead of dispersing them with force, eh?

RCNE said: I like this weapon. Given a little time to tweak this apparatus in power and shrink it in size to make it handheld. The bad guys will be toast!

Gosh, hope your gubbmint never views you as an enemy..... oh wait, they already do.

gw120 said: Well this is a hell of a lot better than just blowing people up, seeing as they don't die, and can be pin pointed at a person instead of hitting an entire neighborhood.

Why? Is it better to have prisoners who will die to kill your men close and around you under guard as opposed to dying for what they fight for in the first place?

This will remove what little honor there is left, in war, and is making realistic mass enslavenement even more possible via the use of "limited force".