Indonesia's Secular State under Siege

[shrike]

Indonesia is a nominally secular democracy. But the influence of conservative Islam is gaining in the world's biggest Muslim country. A further step away from tolerance may be just around the corner.
...
For years, radical Islamists have taken advantage of the democracy gained after the 1998 ouster of former Indonesian dictator Suharto to question that very democracy, all in the name of piety. A cultural war has broken out between the supporters and opponents of religious fundamentalism, a struggle that could deeply change this country and its traditionally softer brand of Islam.
With 221 million inhabitants, of which 194 million are Muslims, the island nation is not only Southeast Asia's most populous country, but is also home to the world's largest Muslim population. And that population looks to be growing increasingly devout. Significantly more women wear the headscarf today than a decade ago, and the number of Indonesians making the pilgrimage to Mecca grows year after year. Alcoholic beverages are disappearing from the shelves of supermarkets, and in some places those who violate the Islamic ban on alcohol already face public whipping -- a brutal spectacle that is even broadcast on local television stations.
Sliding Towards Conservative Islam: Indonesia's Secular State under Siege - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

[Nono]

Yes, Suharto -- like Saddam Hussein, say, or the generals in Turkey -- was as merciless with the religious nuts as he was with everybody else.

Inreased nuttery in Indonesia? That, as Donald Rumsfeld might say, is the face of democracy. It's these loonies from the island of Madura, just north of Java. They're even worse than our friends from Aceh. (At least Aceh is georgraphically close to Arabia, so it stands to reason.)

Indonesia is an anarchic mess (dig it, a nation of 17,000 islands!) and so prey to Messianic movements.

I remind Israelis that this is all the more reason to be seen to do the right thing.

[Canada.Smith.B]

Just out of curiousity: What efforts are being taken to counter this conservative Islamic movement?

[Nono]

What efforts would you recommend? Civics courses? The best way is to obviate a major sense of grievance by trying to give everyone a stake in society and its benefits. Indonesia isn't exactly tops in that department.

[Canada.Smith.B]

Well I don't think mass mobilization, even in the sense of education or "popular enlightenment" would be effective. If anything it would feed reactionaries.

If we were to look at what is appealing about the Islamic movement to themost active members / organizers and attempt to redress the circumstances that sent them to the movement. That may work?

but that could be real expensive...time consuming, and who knows if the analysis of "why islamic fundamentalism" will be correct.

So the other option is to provide "big stick" support to the democratic regime to help them neutralize the movement with force.

If at some point the reasons why the movement is popular aren't dealt with in some way however the entire issue could develop into something vastly more serious and expensive.

trying to give everyone a stake in society

Correct me if I am wrong but you are asserting that the islamic movement is a manifestation of poverty, want... and other such material issues. Could be resolved with some manner of wealth redistribution?

Admittedly I know little about Indonesia. I would always put myself on the side of addressing why people are turning to radicalism and subsequently putting a plan into place to deal with that. Taking a look at history though, intervention often alienates one group in exchange for the token support of another...

So I suppose the best answer is, try policy, if all else fails - boots on the ground. Ultimately Islamic fundamentalist regimes gaining power through violence should be avoided at all costs.

[Nono]

Quote by: Can Correct me if I am wrong but you are asserting that the islamic movement is a manifestation of poverty, want... and other such material issues. Could be resolved with some manner of wealth redistribution?

Not entirely (wrong). I certainly am asserting that material want can be an aggravating factor (see Germany in the 20s....). So yes, decent wealth redistribution is important -- everywhere.

But by a stake in society I mean above all a sense of belonging to something worth belonging to, and that wants you to belong. Sounds simple, but it's a hell of a problem for countries like France at the moment with a young, alienated Muslim minority.

[Canada.Smith.B]

material want can be an aggravating factor

Good point. As the DeutschMark (or was it Reich Mark at the time?) Fell in value it radicalized people fairly quickly.

Of course they were a society of haves that became have nots. Does this rule apply to historical have nots, who in a real sense have never been "haves"?

Stake in society could be acheived through more transparent democratic procedure?

I tend to think democracy and stability are linked to the size, tempermant and beliefs of the middle class, perhaps in the end it does all boil down to butter.