Why 3rd parties can't and won't win the WH.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready How is the American National Libertarian Party extreme on individual rights?

Pure capitalistic economy, no taxation, but maintain a function government, have big business run the country, no restraints on big business etc.

In other words they favor anarchy!

I didn't see him on Bill Maher, because I don't watch Bill Maher, usually. Who said he was the BEST representative of the Libertarian Party? Oh, YOU did, didn't you. I didn't see anyone else say that.

You should check it out! LOL it might change your views. The guy sounded like a moron.How is he not the representative of your "party?" How many other

Congressman do the Libertarians have. In 1988, Paul won the nomination of the Libertarian Party for the U.S. Presidency. He placed third in the popular vote (with 431,750 votes - 0.47%), behind George H. W. Bush and Michael Dukakis.

[Osborn F Enready]

Ghook said: Pure capitalistic economy, no taxation, but maintain a function government, have big business run the country, no restraints on big business etc. In other words they favor anarchy!

LOL.... you are either tragically misinformed, or have a very twisted filter of perception.

Get in touch with the facts:
Official Website of the Libertarian National Committee

Ghook said: You should check it out! LOL it might change your views. The guy sounded like a moron.

Well, I will have to check it out I guess. I find that hard to believe, but I am sure he took Bill Maher as tongue in cheek as possible, since that is the respect the guy deserves.

As soon as I have the opprotunity to view it, I will post back my opinion of the event.

As a sidenote, if one bad appearance sank a canidate, how would Bush have EVER been elected?

[brien]

LOL.... you are either tragically misinformed, or have a very twisted filter of perception. Get in touch with the facts:

Os, Ghook is not interested in addressing facts in the LP. I provided the link long ago and the answer I got was that I was either" a communist or the Propaganda minster for the LP."

You see, it is more convenient for people to create their own perceived LP ideology the way the want it, so when it comes to arguing their points, it fits within their mistaken and self created ideas, rather than the truth. It is rather like debating with oneself.

[Clarence]

Why is it that Ron Paul couldn't raise a substantial amount of money from americans? He hasn't really tried. Votes are money if you have enough of them. I understand about the electoral college. or is it electoral collage?

given the scenerio in the OP, it could be pulled off. I can see it and I'm sure others can. Vicchios summary just illuminates the glaring problems with us and the system. I haven't seen any reason to be discouraged or spend too much time answering to the strongly opposed. They have thier reasons. They will find dirt if it's there. That is their only positive function at this point. fingers crossed.

The Decider's arguements could be a good way to bring Jimmy Carter on board. No doubt changes need to be made but may not be necessary immediately if enough people can believe in the candidate. Was not aware of Pauls position on this. I need to think about it I guess. If no one was opposed to carter's endorsement, there could be an open bi-partisan coalition like is talked about but never really amounts to anything meaningful. The 'terrorists'(whoever they are) will consider us weak because of the confusion created by shifting regimes(?) in our gov't. Paul would need a plan to deal with immenent reprisal for his success. no biggie. Maybe there's more allies out there. I'll bet.

There's no reason he can't be a republican.

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I have no doubt Paul doesn't support TAX based campaigns. I never said he did. That doesn't mean he isn't the least harmful canidate running to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Liberty and equality of the individual. I am one of few Libertarians who would view a tax based approach as reasonable, but I have my reasoning. Some libs agree, some don't. Paul is still hands down the least harmful canidate in the running for President, and that alone stands proven by his voting record compared to ANY of the others.

The problem with tax financed campaigns would be that they would be designed by the incumbents. Every so-called "reform" passed to date has simply been a measure designed to strengthen the incumbent's positions.

Unless a reform proposal can be forced upon the government from the outside there will be no way that any meaningful change will take place.

Keith

[Osborn F Enready]

Keith said: Unless a reform proposal can be forced upon the government from the outside there will be no way that any meaningful change will take place.

I agree completely.

I can't believe the rest of the public isn't demanding this already.

The two party-charade is wearing thin, and I think the longer the D&R's bungle this years goals, and fail to impeach Bushista and his henchman, the more and more people are waking up to what a scham this has been with 157 years of bi-partisan domination of politics.

[brien]

Here is an edited chonological account of the success of the LP from 1984.:

Official Website of the Libertarian National Committee

1984 On the ballot in 39 states, David Bergland and Jim Lewis come in third in the race for President for the first time in the LP's history. Bergland publishes Libertarianism in One Lesson, a campaign book that eventually sells over 75,000 copies, and is still used by the LP today as an introductory text. Andre Marrou becomes the third Libertarian elected to the Alaska legislature. Libertarians are elected to 11 more local offices around the country. 1986 More than 200 candidates across the United States receive 2.9 million votes. Ray Cullen, candidate for Treasurer in California, gets 570,000 votes, largest vote total ever for a third party candidate in California. 1987 Doug Anderson is elected Elections Commissioner in Denver. Libertarians are elected to every seat on the city council in Big Water, Utah. Former U.S. Congressman Ron Paul resigns from the Republican Party and joins the LP.. 1988 Ron Paul, on the ballot in 46 states and the District of Columbia, comes in third, receiving more than 430,000 votes nationwide -- almost twice the total of any other "third" party. 1990 Approximately two million people vote for LP candidates. New Mexico state legislature candidate Illa Mae Bolton gets 31% of the vote. California congressional candidate Joe Shea receives 27% of the vote. A 5% vote for New Hampshire gubernatorial candidate Miriam Luce qualifies LP of New Hampshire as an official party with ballot status. More than 440,000 Texans vote for Court of Criminal Appeals candidate Carol Caul. 1991 New Hampshire state legislators Calvin Warburton and Finlay Rothhaus resign from the Republican Party and join the LP. 1992 In New Hampshire's presidential primary election Andre Marrou beats incumbent President George Bush 11 votes to 9 in Dixville Notch, the town whose voters always vote first in the nation. In the general election, four Libertarian state legislators are elected in New Hampshire, with Don Gorman and Andy Borsa joining Warburton and Rothhaus who were re-elected. Once again the LP's presidential ticket is on the ballot in all 50 states, D.C., and Guam, the only party other than the Democrats and Republicans to achieve this goal. The more than 700 LP candidates nationwide receive more than 3,700,000 votes for state and federal offices alone. The 23 Libertarian candidates for U.S. Senate receive over 1,000,000 votes, the highest total for a nationally organized third party since 1914. The LP retains ballot status in 16 states following the 1992 election, two more than it had after the 1988 election. 1993. In "off-year" elections, 15 Libertarians win public office, scoring victories in local and county races across the country from Alabama to New York, from Pennsylvania to Minnesota. 1994 In New Hampshire, Jim McClarin becomes the most recent Libertarian elected to a state legislative slot; incumbent Don Gorman is re-elected. Elsewhere, Libertarians are elected to city council positions and local boards. Montana Libertarian candidate receives more than 30% for a statewide office. Libertarians win ballot status for 1996 in Illinois, Indiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, and Wyoming. Coming out of this election, the LP is now automatically qualified to nominate a presidential candidate in 23 states, the most ever. 1995 Membership and voter registrations soar to record levels. In November, three more Libertarians are elected to city councils: Bruce Van Buren (Avondale Estates, Georgia), Dewayne Methaney (Auburn, Georgia), and Doug Carlsten (Brighton, Colorado.) 1996 The Libertarian Party becomes the first third party in American history to earn ballot status in all 50 states two presidential elections in a row. At the nominating convention in Washington, DC, best-selling author Harry Browne gets the party's nomination. He goes on to win 485,759 votes in the general election, the second-best showing in party history. The party runs almost 800 candidates for office, and 10 of them break the 100,000-vote barrier. LP candidates for statewide and federal office alone win 5.4 million votes, and seven Libertarians are elected or re-elected to office. 1997 Another record-setting "off-year" election for the Libertarian Party, with 39 Libertarians elected to office in November -- including four city council winners: Fred Collins (Berkley, Michigan); Ron Wittig (New Meadows, Idaho); Bob DeBrosse (Piqua, Ohio); and John Gearhart (Palous, Washington). In all, 64 party members join the ranks of Libertarian office-holders during the course of the year. 1998 In November, the party sets a new record by running 853 candidates in 44 states. Neil Randall wins election as a State Rep. in Vermont, while Zenneth Caudill and Mary Dufour win partisan office as Jefferson Township Trustees in Indiana. In all, 19 LP candidates are elected. 1999. . Fourteen Libertarians are elected to office in local Spring elections, and more than 200 Libertarian candidates are on the ballot in state and local elections in November. 2000. The number of registered Libertarian voters passes 224,000, a 10% increase in less than a year. Folksinger Melanie joins the party. A Rasmussen Research poll reveals that 16% of Americans are ideologically libertarian. The Anaheim, California convention nominates Harry Browne for president and former Bellflower, CA mayor Art Olivier for VP. They head a ticket of 1,436 LP candidates, including 256 candidates for U.S. House -- the first time in 80 years a third party has contested a majority of Congressional seats. In one of the closest elections in American history, the LP presidential ticket gets 382,892 votes. However, 34 Libertarians are elected to office, Massachusetts U.S. Senate candidate Carla Howell wins a record 11.9% of the vote, and the LP's candidates for U.S. House win 1.6 million votes -- a new record for any third party. 2001 It was the most successful year ever for Libertarians as they elected 96 people to public office. The number of Libertarians in elective office increased to 301, a jump of 45% in a single year; and the total number of Libertarians in public office rose to 522. . 2002 The Libertarian Party ran more than 1,642 candidates – the largest slate of candidates ever for the Libertarian Party and the largest for any third party since World War II. That’s almost twice as many as the 845 candidates the Party ran in 1998. US House candidates polled over 1 million votes for the second time in two election cycles making the Libertarian Party the only other party in history to do so other than Democrats and Republicans. The “Incumbent Killer” strategy was used to control elections the LP could not yet win. It led to the defeat of Republican Congressman Bob Barr and Democratic Senator Max Cleland. It was also credited with controlling the outcome of the governor’s races in Alabama, Wisconsin, and Oregon, and the US Senate race in South Dakota. Massachusetts Libertarians gathered 101,000 signatures to put a measure eliminating the state income tax on the ballot. On Election Day voters sent shock waves through the media-political establishment when, even with heavy opposition from Democrats and Republicans, 45 percent of the electorate supported it. 2003. Even though it was an off-year election, the LP racked up 46 victories –- over half of them coming in higher level offices such as city and county council, increasing the upward march of Libertarian office-holders. In Michigan, Libertarians were re-elected to city council seats and in 5 states Republican and Democrat incumbents were booted from theirs. As 2003 drew to a close, over 600 Libertarians were serving in public office nationwide. 2004 Party membership rebounded with an increase of 4.5 percent over 2003. American voters were able to vote for the Libertarian Party candidate in 48 states. This led all third parties: Ralph Nader got on only 39 ballots, the Constitution Party got on 35 and the Greens, just 27.. 2005 In June the Libertarian Party released the "Iraq Exit Strategy: America's Path Forward", a comprehensive plan to withdraw American troops from Iraqi soil, while empowering the Iraqi people with the ability to rule their own nation.

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I think this is impressive growth considering the LP was only founded in 1971. Keep in mind, all of you skeptics, and you know who you are here, that the American Revolution really began before 1747 when the people of Boston rose up in "great anger" over the desertion of 50 British sailors from the HMS Lark whom were seeking a better life for themselves. Commodore Charles Knowles ordered a search along the Boston docks for these sailors, and upon failing to find them, impressed a number of colonists to replace them.

This practice of impressment had been going in Boston since before 1741when colonists had beat and stoned a royal sheriff who supported impressment, and in 1742, a crowd attacked the commanding officer of the Astrea while destroying a barge belonging to the Royal Navy, over the issue.

So if one realizes it took 48 years, up to 1789, to actually set up a new government in Amercia, the LP progress seems to me, to be acceptable.

[Century 25]

The debates are a joke, and the two major parties do all they can in coercion with major media to ISOLATE the debates to only the two major parties, since they operate on the same playbook, and address only the same talking points, to which they can recite pre-written, regurgitated answers, and have NO valid questions presented by opponents who can competently challenge them. (since no third parties are allowed to debate, no fear of a challenge from the two "major party" canidates, who are owned lock stock and barrel by corporate lobbyists, and special intrests.)

Bingo..!! And.. now some famous (or infamous) quotes:

What luck for rulers that men do not think. The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one. I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few. By means of shrewd lies, unremittingly repeated, it is possible to make people believe that heaven is hell -- and hell heaven. The greater the lie, the more readily it will be believed.

Guess who.. no.. not Bush.. although it sometimes seems he may have taken a page or two from the author of the above quotes..