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fushigi · Apr 3, 2007, 11:29 pm

Quote:

Jonathan Singer: There's a story in The Hill, I think on Tuesday, by Bob Cusack on the front page of the paper talking about how John McCain's people -- John Weaver -- had approached Tom Daschle and a New York Congressman, I don't remember his name, about switching parties. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what your discussions were with him in 2004, how far it went, who approached whom... if there was any "there" there.

John Kerry: I don't know all the details of it. I know that Tom, from a conversation with him, was in conversation with a number of Republicans back then. It doesn't surprise me completely because his people similarly approached me to engage in a discussion about his potentially being on the ticket as Vice President. So his people were active -- let's put it that way.

Well this won't earn him any points with the GOP.

tinybear · Apr 4, 2007, 04:00 am

Somehow I find that hard to believe.

fushigi · Apr 4, 2007, 04:10 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Somehow I find that hard to believe.

You think Kerry's lying?

Chaossaber314 · Apr 4, 2007, 04:33 am

Wouldn't be the first time.

fushigi · Apr 4, 2007, 04:43 am

Quote:

Quote by: Chaossaber314

Wouldn't be the first time.

What is this, amateur hour? That's the best you got?

tinybear · Apr 4, 2007, 05:20 am

Quote:

Quote by: fushigi

You think Kerry's lying?

Well, not necessarily. Kerry could have been approached by people claiming to be John McCain's "people". Did he identify those people? Did he verify with McCain? Why didn't McCain have a word with Kerry personally on such an important matter?

It's not in McCain's character to change sides. McCain is a stubborn man and usually doesn't abandon ship so easily.

fushigi · Apr 4, 2007, 05:43 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Well, not necessarily. Kerry could have been approached by people claiming to be John McCain's "people". Did he identify those people? Did he verify with McCain? Why didn't McCain have a word with Kerry personally on such an important matter?

TB... that's why I highlighted that section in the quote:

Quote:

John McCain's people -- John Weaver -- had approached Tom Daschle and a New York Congressman, I don't remember his name, about switching parties.

So what you're suggesting is that at least Kerry, and most likely Daschle and unnamed NY congressman are ALL lying, and that Weaver is denying the story. Thus far, none of this has been confirmed to be happening. Why just jump up and down and cry, "conspiracy! Liar!"?

tinybear · Apr 4, 2007, 05:59 am

It was Jonathan Singer who named Weaver as one of McCain's "people". Kerry didn't name anyone.

And where did I start jumping up and down and crying, "conspiracy! Liar!"? I did nothing of the sort.

fushigi · Apr 4, 2007, 06:05 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

And where did I start jumping up and down and crying, "conspiracy! Liar!"? I did nothing of the sort.

Here:

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Somehow I find that hard to believe.

Are you saying you weren't calling Kerry a liar?

tinybear · Apr 4, 2007, 06:25 am

I didn't call Kerry a liar (please scroll up and read my message again)

fushigi · Apr 4, 2007, 06:28 am

I saw what you posted - I even quoted it. You said, "I find that hard to believe." Which part were you talking about?

tinybear · Apr 4, 2007, 06:55 am

"Not necessarily". That's what I said. Even if it's untrue that McCain approached Kerry wanting to be his VP doesn't necessarily follow that Kerry must have lied. Get it?

Chaossaber314 · Apr 4, 2007, 08:38 am

Quote:

Quote by: fushigi

What is this, amateur hour? That's the best you got?

Kerry is his own material. You don't really have to make jokes about him. He's already a punchline.

fushigi · Apr 4, 2007, 08:42 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

"Not necessarily". That's what I said. Even if it's untrue that McCain approached Kerry wanting to be his VP doesn't necessarily follow that Kerry must have lied. Get it?

You mean maybe somebody in Kerry's own camp lied to him?

Why must you always imply! Just say what you mean TB!

Chaossaber314 · Apr 4, 2007, 08:47 am

Quote:

Quote by: fushigi

You mean maybe somebody in Kerry's own camp lied to him?

Why must you always imply! Just say what you mean TB!

Or maybe it was someone random not related to either camp thinking they were funny?

tinybear · Apr 4, 2007, 08:52 am

Quote:

Quote by: fushigi

You mean maybe somebody in Kerry's own camp lied to him?

Why must you always imply! Just say what you mean TB!

Maybe. Or maybe not. Someone may have claimed he was from the McCain camp whereas he wasn't.

We shouldn't jump to hasty conclusions. We simply don't know.

fushigi · Apr 5, 2007, 12:19 am

The article says it plain and simple. It was Jack Weaver, a member of McCain's campaign team.

tinybear · Apr 5, 2007, 12:50 am

Read it again and I still don't see how you can conclude Senator Kerry was referring to Weaver.

That aside, I somehow can't see McCain do such a thing. It's a stupid thing to do. He would have been viewed as a turncoat by both the Republicans and Democrats. It's tantamount to political suicide. Besides, is McCain the sort of guy who would do this?

"On October 26, 1967, McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by an anti-aircraft missile, landing in Truc Bach Lake. He broke both arms and a leg after ejecting from his plane. After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around him, spat on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was then tortured by Vietnamese soldiers, who bayonetted him in his left foot and groin. His shoulder was crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.[10]

Once McCain arrived at the Hanoi Hilton, he was placed in a cell and interrogated daily. When McCain refused to provide any information to his captors, he was beaten until he lost consciousness.[11]

When the North Vietnamese discovered his father was the Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command, (CINCPAC), commander of all U.S. forces in Vietnam, he was offered a chance to return home. McCain turned down the offer of repatriation.[12]

McCain signed an anti-American propaganda message which was written in Vietnamese, but only as a result of rigorous and brutal torture methods, which to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head. According to McCain, signing the propaganda message is something he most regrets during his time as a POW. After McCain signed the statement, the Vietnamese decided they could not use it. They tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time he refused. He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal.[13]

McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five-and-a-half years, mostly in the infamous Hanoi Hilton, and was finally released from captivity in 1973, having been a POW for almost an extra five years due to his earlier refusal to accept an out of turn repatriation offer."

John McCain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is this the kind of person who would voluntarily and of his own free will be a traitor to his own party?

I don't know about you, but I doubt it.

fushigi · Apr 5, 2007, 01:32 am

Well, I think McCain's proven he can be flexible on a lot of things lately, including abortion, climate change, and gay marriage. Any illusion of McCain having convictions strong enough to prevent him from cynical politicking have, IMO, been thrown out the window at this point.

tinybear · Apr 5, 2007, 01:37 am

You can change your mind on a variety of issues, but being a traitor is quite a different matter.

Apr 4, 2007, 04:33 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Chaossaber314 The Cake is a lie... Location: St. Louis Posts: 2,284	Wouldn't be the first time. What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

Apr 4, 2007, 06:28 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
fushigi Hot Lava Location: Beijing Posts: 2,340	I saw what you posted - I even quoted it. You said, "I find that hard to believe." Which part were you talking about? "What truth endures beneath the flaming stream?" -- A Volcano, Bartolome de Las Casas, Inferno de Marsaya, 1536

Apr 5, 2007, 12:19 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
fushigi Hot Lava Location: Beijing Posts: 2,340	The article says it plain and simple. It was Jack Weaver, a member of McCain's campaign team. "What truth endures beneath the flaming stream?" -- A Volcano, Bartolome de Las Casas, Inferno de Marsaya, 1536

Apr 5, 2007, 01:32 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
fushigi Hot Lava Location: Beijing Posts: 2,340	Well, I think McCain's proven he can be flexible on a lot of things lately, including abortion, climate change, and gay marriage. Any illusion of McCain having convictions strong enough to prevent him from cynical politicking have, IMO, been thrown out the window at this point. "What truth endures beneath the flaming stream?" -- A Volcano, Bartolome de Las Casas, Inferno de Marsaya, 1536

Apr 4, 2007, 04:00 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,008	Somehow I find that hard to believe.

Apr 4, 2007, 05:59 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,008	It was Jonathan Singer who named Weaver as one of McCain's "people". Kerry didn't name anyone. And where did I start jumping up and down and crying, "conspiracy! Liar!"? I did nothing of the sort.

Apr 4, 2007, 06:25 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,008	I didn't call Kerry a liar (please scroll up and read my message again)

Apr 4, 2007, 06:55 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,008	"Not necessarily". That's what I said. Even if it's untrue that McCain approached Kerry wanting to be his VP doesn't necessarily follow that Kerry must have lied. Get it?

Apr 5, 2007, 12:50 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,008	Read it again and I still don't see how you can conclude Senator Kerry was referring to Weaver. That aside, I somehow can't see McCain do such a thing. It's a stupid thing to do. He would have been viewed as a turncoat by both the Republicans and Democrats. It's tantamount to political suicide. Besides, is McCain the sort of guy who would do this? "On October 26, 1967, McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by an anti-aircraft missile, landing in Truc Bach Lake. He broke both arms and a leg after ejecting from his plane. After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around him, spat on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was then tortured by Vietnamese soldiers, who bayonetted him in his left foot and groin. His shoulder was crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.[10] Once McCain arrived at the Hanoi Hilton, he was placed in a cell and interrogated daily. When McCain refused to provide any information to his captors, he was beaten until he lost consciousness.[11] When the North Vietnamese discovered his father was the Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command, (CINCPAC), commander of all U.S. forces in Vietnam, he was offered a chance to return home. McCain turned down the offer of repatriation.[12] McCain signed an anti-American propaganda message which was written in Vietnamese, but only as a result of rigorous and brutal torture methods, which to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head. According to McCain, signing the propaganda message is something he most regrets during his time as a POW. After McCain signed the statement, the Vietnamese decided they could not use it. They tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time he refused. He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal.[13] McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five-and-a-half years, mostly in the infamous Hanoi Hilton, and was finally released from captivity in 1973, having been a POW for almost an extra five years due to his earlier refusal to accept an out of turn repatriation offer." John McCain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Is this the kind of person who would voluntarily and of his own free will be a traitor to his own party? I don't know about you, but I doubt it.

Apr 5, 2007, 01:37 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,008	You can change your mind on a variety of issues, but being a traitor is quite a different matter.