McCain "ripped a new one by Michael Ware"

[fushigi]

McCain restated his claim that there are neighborhoods safe enough in Iraq for Americans to walk through - without any security - unharmed.

Michael Ware then proceeds to utterly destroy McCain. It's almost painful to watch.

WATCH

fushigi

p.s. I don't know if you've ever seen this guy's blog, but it's great, take a readthrough

[Chaossaber314]

Clearly he's able to walk around without being hurt by this rampant violence. I respect someone with the courage to sit there on a camera while a supposed gun battle rages behind them.

He has a point but it was lost in the hyperbole.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Clearly he's able to walk around without being hurt by this rampant violence.

Ware gave the interview inside the Green Zone. It's supposed to be "safe" from "rampant violence."

Quote by: Chaossaber314 He has a point but it was lost in the hyperbole.

Ware's "hyperbole" was a fitting response to John McCain's hilarious assertion that Americans could "stroll" through some Baghdad neighborhoods or that General Petraeus takes almost daily rides in the city in an "unarmed" humvee.

McCain got the message from the "hyperbole" and later retracted his statement:

Crooks and Liars Media

The Arizona senator justs looks like an old fool these days.

[bishop]

mccain wants us to stay in iraq indefinitely, so he feels the need to paint rosy pictures - hoping that he can somehow persuade the public through this smug confidence...

he needs to distort reality because he boxed himself into this corner where he supports more of the same, with more of the same.

welcome to reality, mr. mccain.

Iraq blast targets hospital visitors - CNN.com

In northern Iraq, a car exploded about 7 a.m. after the driver parked it near Iraqis looking for work in the center of Tuz Khormato, 130 miles north of Baghdad. The driver and two workers were killed and 11 others wounded in the attack, police Col. Abbas Mohammed Amin said. He said the driver intended to wait until more workers had gathered before detonating the explosives but they went off prematurely, preventing a higher casualty toll. The attacks raised to at least 517 the number of people killed in the past seven days as suicide bombers and militiamen fought back ferociously despite a U.S.-Iraqi security sweep that is in its seventh week.

[fushigi]

Quote by: The Decider Crooks and Liars Media The Arizona senator justs looks like an old fool these days.

Ouch. Somehow he made himself more awkward when he clarified.

It's like watching grandpa yell at the bathroom soap when he has one of his bad days. Just makes you kinda pity the guy. Don't think that'll be his strongest foot forward in the campaign.

Thanks D.

[bishop]

can't say i feel remotely sorry for mccain.. he deserves to be harshly rebuked for attempting to sugarcoat and blatantly lie about this horrible war.

if mccain's approach to this war is to lie to the public, which it apparently seems to be, he stands no chance of winning. he used to be viewed as a straight talker, but not anymore.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Decider Ware gave the interview inside the Green Zone. It's supposed to be "safe" from "rampant violence."

So what gives him this unique perspective as to the state of the rest of the country then?

Ware's "hyperbole" was a fitting response to John McCain's hilarious assertion that Americans could "stroll" through some Baghdad neighborhoods or that General Petraeus takes almost daily rides in the city in an "unarmed" humvee.

lol. When is exaggeration ever a fitting response from anyone?

I'll let this one go since I guess you forgot the definition.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 So what gives him this unique perspective as to the state of the rest of the country then?

I don't know--his proximity to Iraqi and US sources, embedding with troops when he can, and other sources nearby? McCain's amended comments lend further proof. Too bad you didn't listen to them.

Quote by: Chaossaber314 lol. When is exaggeration ever a fitting response from anyone? I'll let this one go since I guess you forgot the definition.

When exaggeration highlights the truth, which, for some reason, you don't want to discuss (ie McCain's changing story). Blame the media--that always works!

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Decider I don't know--his proximity to Iraqi and US sources, embedding with troops when he can, and other sources nearby? McCain's amended comments lend further proof. Too bad you didn't listen to them.

I'm not saying McCain is credible here, I'm just wondering why this guy is either. Just because X isn't credible doesn't automatically make Y credible instead. It's this logical misstep that is the reason we're stuck with a two party system.

When exaggeration highlights the truth, which, for some reason, you don't want to discuss (ie McCain's changing story).

HA! By definition an exaggeration isn't the truth. It's a misrepresentation of the truth.

Blame the media--that always works!

Are you reading something I'm not here? Where did I "blame the media"? And, what exactly would I be blaming the media for again? You lost me.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 I'm not saying McCain is credible here, I'm just wondering why this guy is either. Just because X isn't credible doesn't automatically make Y credible instead. It's this logical misstep that is the reason we're stuck with a two party system.

McCain's retraction of his comments lends support to Ware's position. He's credible because, in the end, the sources he cited--US officers laughing at McCain's suggestion--turned out to be correct. General Petraeus' office gave more corroboration the next day. Michael Ware also works in Baghdad; McCain doesn't.

Quote by: Chaossaber314 HA! By definition an exaggeration isn't the truth. It's a misrepresentation of the truth.

Yes, just as sarcasm and satire are not "the truth." But they can expose it, as Ware demonstrated.

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Are you reading something I'm not here? Where did I "blame the media"? And, what exactly would I be blaming the media for again? You lost me.

You questioned Michael Ware's reporting in your first post without once ever addressing the specifics of the OP--McCain's ludicrous comments. You focused on the reporter, the messenger, instead of McCain. You "blamed" Ware for using hyperbole (exaggeration) without ever considering the sources he cites--US officers and other journalists who can't leave the Green Zone without armed escorts.

And then you inserted the usual "non-partisan" bile about the one-party system. I suppose Michael Ware is part of the two-party conspiracy, and his exaggeration/sarcastic comments about a story proven to be true by McCain's own admission is the evidence.

[Chaossaber314]

McCain's retraction of his comments lends support to Ware's position. He's credible because, in the end, the sources he cited--US officers laughing at McCain's suggestion--turned out to be correct. General Petraeus' office gave more corroboration the next day. Michael Ware also works in Baghdad; McCain doesn't.

Michael Ware apparently works in the green zone. Clearly that doesn't exactly give him this overwhelming perspective of "actually being there" outside of that area. The area outside the green zone being what we're discussing here.

Yes, just as sarcasm and satire are not "the truth." But they can expose it, as Ware demonstrated.

Satire and Sarcasm are done so under other intentions. Exaggerations by definitions are done so with the intent of misrepresenting the fact.

You questioned Michael Ware's reporting in your first post without once ever addressing the specifics of the OP--McCain's ludicrous comments.

So one person equals the media now?

You "blamed" Ware for using hyperbole (exaggeration) without ever considering the sources he cites--US officers and other journalists who can't leave the Green Zone without armed escorts.

Point negated. You conceded he used hyperbole already.

And then you inserted the usual "non-partisan" bile about the one-party system.

Non-partisan bile? I suggest you read some more of my posts because that's not a stance I've just taken all of the sudden for this argument.

I suppose Michael Ware is part of the two-party conspiracy

What are you on about this time?

and his exaggeration/sarcastic comments about a story proven to be true by McCain's own admission is the evidence

I'm not sure if you got the memo but exaggeration and sarcasm are not the same thing.

[fushigi]

Quote by: bishop if mccain's approach to this war is to lie to the public, which it apparently seems to be, he stands no chance of winning. he used to be viewed as a straight talker, but not anymore.

Heh speaking of miscues, did you see McCain accidentally say, "The reason the Republicans lost the war-- er, excuse me, the, uh, last election..."

Here. Classic.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Michael Ware apparently works in the green zone. Clearly that doesn't exactly give him this overwhelming perspective of "actually being there" outside of that area. The area outside the green zone being what we're discussing here.

You made this point about Ware earlier: "Clearly he's able to walk around without being hurt by this rampant violence."

To which I replied that he gave his interview in the Green Zone, Iraq's most secure piece of real estate--within earshot of the rampant violence on Baghdad's "safe for American strolling" city streets.

Now, after apparently conceding your error, you suggest that Ware doesn't know what happens outside of the Green Zone because he gave this report from within it.

To which I will counter with his interviews of US officers, his participation in the US embedded reporter program, and McCain's own retraction of his comments based on Ware's reporting.

So, how did Ware's exaggeration get this story wrong again? Could you post the quote that motivated your original objection?

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Satire and Sarcasm are done so under other intentions. Exaggerations by definitions are done so with the intent of misrepresenting the fact.

Exaggerations can overstate the truth for the purposes of highlighting the same.

hy·per·bo·le (hī-pûr'bə-lē)
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect

Largely synonymous with exaggeration and overstatement, hyperbole (pronounced /haɪˈpɝbəli/ or "hy-PER-buh-lee") ("HY-per-bowl" is a mispronunciation) is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated. It may be used due to strong feelings or is used to create a strong impression and is not meant to be taken literally. It gives greater emphasis. It is often used in poetry and is a literary device.

hyperbole: Definition, Synonyms and Much More from Answers.com
Hyperbole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hyperbole, like satire and sarcasm, can highlight the truth. McCain's retraction is evidence of Ware's accuracy, even while he expressed strong feelings that were not meant to be taken literally (ie Ware sarcasm; "Does McCain live in Never-never Land?")

Again, how exactly did Ware get this story wrong?

[Chaossaber314]

You made this point about Ware earlier: "Clearly he's able to walk around without being hurt by this rampant violence." To which I replied that he gave his interview in the Green Zone, Iraq's most secure piece of real estate--within earshot of the rampant violence on Baghdad's "safe for American strolling" city streets.

Really? From the supposed gun-battle behind him it seems to dispute the safety of the green zone.

Now, after apparently conceding your error, you suggest that Ware doesn't know what happens outside of the Green Zone because he gave this report from within it.

You implied he knew from personal experience having been there. I disputed this since he was still in the green zone.

To which I will counter with his interviews of US officers, his participation in the US embedded reporter program, and McCain's own retraction of his comments based on Ware's reporting.

So in other words he knows through word of mouth, not from actually being there and you prove your initial point wrong.

So, how did Ware's exaggeration get this story wrong again? Could you post the quote that motivated your original objection?

Where did I say he got the story wrong? I merely said he lost credibility by misrepresenting the facts.

Exaggerations can overstate the truth for the purposes of highlighting the same. hy·per·bo·le (hī-pûr'bə-lē) n. A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect Largely synonymous with exaggeration and overstatement, hyperbole (pronounced /haɪˈpɝbəli/ or "hy-PER-buh-lee") ("HY-per-bowl" is a mispronunciation) is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated. It may be used due to strong feelings or is used to create a strong impression and is not meant to be taken literally. It gives greater emphasis. It is often used in poetry and is a literary device.

Oh get off it already. By your failure to understand the term the Bush Administration's use of the same concept to describe the threat Iraq posed and to misrepresent the facts shouldn't take away from their credibility either. Clearly that's not the case.

Misrepresenting the facts takes away from your credibility whether or not the person doing the misrepresentation happens to be supporting your viewpoint so you feel you can allow it.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Really? From the supposed gun-battle behind him it seems to dispute the safety of the green zone.

Which was Ware's point--and mine. McCain's assertion that the streets of Baghdad were "safe for strolling" Americans was utter BS. Ware used live sound and his own incredulous language to amplify that point.

So, what exactly troubled you about the report? A quote would be nice.

Quote by: Chaossaber314 You implied he knew from personal experience having been there. I disputed this since he was still in the green zone.

Would Ware's report from the middle of the raging battle have given him more credibility? All he needed to demonstrate was the lack of security in a city that McCain claimed was "safe for strolling." He had little trouble doing that. Ware is also part of the military's "embed" program that takes journalists outside the Green Zone.

Quote by: Chaossaber314 So in other words he knows through word of mouth, not from actually being there and you prove your initial point wrong.

Again, did Ware have to deliver his report from the battle zone? You could here it raging in the background. He's been outside the Green Zone and he got corroboration from the US officers who have knowledge about the area outside of the Green Zone. The report was later corroborated by McCain himself, through his retraction. Again, what exactly are you criticizing? Please offer a quote by Ware.

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Where did I say he got the story wrong? I merely said he lost credibility by misrepresenting the facts.

Please cite the Ware quote that has you all upset. That might go along way to clarifying our disagreement.

[The Decider]

McCain's "Sunday stroll" in Baghdad today included 100 US soldiers and 2 Black Hawk gunship escorts.

Crooks and Liars Media

Oh yes, and a flak jacket "just in case."

Club Med Baghdad can't be far behind!

[fushigi]

Quote by: Drudge Drudge alleged on his website yesterday that Ware had heckled the Senators during a live press conference. "An official at the press conference called Ware’s conduct 'outrageous,' saying, 'here you have two United States Senators in Bagdad [sic] giving first-hand reports while Ware is laughing and mocking their comments. I’ve never witnessed such disrespect. This guy is an activist not a reporter,'" according to Drudge's article, which has circulated heavily on the internet. (Screen capture here.)

According to Raw Story, this charge is absolutely false, and they have the video to prove it.

Quote by: Raw Story This next video shows the Q&A, where Senator McCain and the other participants field questions from four reporters. The Senators answer without interruption, and CNN's Ware, who appears to be sitting just in front of the camera in the full-room shots of the press conference, does not ask a question, although he does raise his hand toward the end of the clip when the Q&A is concluded.

Nevertheless, Ware's found himself having to explain that these are utter lies, which won't make a bit of difference. Once you get in GOP cross hares, you might as well just lay back and enjoy it.

Well, at least McCain's learned a thing or two from Bush. When someone proves you're a liar trying to manipulate the American people, don't deny it or try to disprove it. Just flame the guy and try to discredit him.

It's like tu quoque to the 83rd power.

[The Decider]

Quote by: fushigi According to Raw Story, this charge is absolutely false, and they have the video to prove it.Nevertheless, Ware's found himself having to explain that these are utter lies, which won't make a bit of difference. Once you get in GOP cross hares, you might as well just lay back and enjoy it. Well, at least McCain's learned a thing or two from Bush. When someone proves you're a liar trying to manipulate the American people, don't deny it or try to disprove it. Just flame the guy and try to discredit him. It's like tu quoque to the 83rd power.

Yes, unfortunately most of the comments on this thread, and similar ones, have involved Michael Ware's "credibility," not McCain's.

Here's an article about the McCain's recent "strolling" photo op at the Baghdad marketplace. Apparently the Iraqi vendors don't share Strolling John's enthusiasm about "improved security."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/wo...=1&oref=slogin

Then again, the article's author, Kirk Semple, may have some credibility problem we don't know about. I'll stay tuned to Volconvo and Matt Drudge to learn the inside scoop.

[GHook93]

What do you people have to say about this? And it is not even from fox news. Could Bush's new strategy be working? Could McCain be right on at least there has been progress?

ABC News: Curfew Eased in Baghdad as Safety Improves

April 3, 2007 — The security situation in Baghdad has improved enough that the Iraqi government is going to shorten the capital's imposed curfew. Residents will be allowed on the streets until 10 p.m., which adds two hours to the cutoff time that existed when U.S. and Iraqi troops began neighborhood sweeps in February. While Baghdad is still rocked by car bombs every day, right in the center of the city a small area of relative calm has emerged, thanks to the stepped-up U.S. patrols and increased Iraqi checkpoints. While it remains dangerous for Westerners to travel out of doors in the city, ABC's Terry McCarthy has spent the past week visiting five Baghdad neighborhoods where the locals said life is slowly coming back to normal. Tea, Clothing and an Amusement Park McCarthy visited Haifa Street, otherwise known as "Sniper Street," as it has been considered one of the most dangerous parts of the city. Now, people who live on Haifa Street say the violence is subdued enough that they can venture back onto the street. At one tea shop a group of men actually asked the ABC News crew to film them to show life as it returns to normal. And the improved conditions are already starting to benefit business, according to one shop owner. "When people heard that it was safe they started coming out and spending money again," said Baghdad store owner Hussein Jihad. Other signs of improvements: a mosque in Zayouna that was fire-bombed is now open for prayer, and Baghdad's biggest amusement park in Zawra is open again. "It's safe here," said 12-year-old Abdullah. "There used to be some bullets, but not anymore." Nobody knows if the small safe zone will expand or get swallowed up again by violence. But for the time being, people here are happy to enjoy a life that looks almost normal.

[GHook93]

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