Swiss man jailed for 10 years for defacing Thai king's image

[fushigi]

Swiss man convicted of lèse-majesté for vandalizing images of Thailand's king and queen was sentenced to 10 years in prison on Thursday, the first time in many years that a foreigner has faced jail for the crime. Oliver Jufer, 57, a resident of Thailand for the past decade, pleaded guilty to spray-painting portraits of King Bhumibol Adulyadej and Queen Sirikit last Dec. 5, the king's birthday. Jufer could have received up to 75 years in prison, but the judge, Phitsanu Tanbukalee, said he decided on a reduced sentence because Jufer had confessed. <snip> Jufer, whose lawyer testified in the trial that he was drunk when he spray-painted the five portraits, was caught on surveillance cameras. He has 30 days to appeal his sentence. <snip> "He deserves it," said Dom Thongsarn, 34, the driver of a three-wheeled tuk-tuk, referring to the prison sentence. "But five years is enough. He's a foreigner. He doesn't understand about our king." Kanya Apichitruengdet, 62, who sells lottery tickets, disagreed. "Ten years is too short," she said. "As a foreigner he should learn about Thai culture before coming to Thailand."

Just a tiny bit excessive IMO.

[tinybear]

Quote by: fushigi Just a tiny bit excessive IMO.

You're master of the understatement!

How much does one get for burning the Thai flag I wonder? Probation?

[StrongHeartsWin]

Those who are supporters of relativism or subjectivism will say he got what he had coming; his sentence was relative to the place he was at when he committed the crime e.g. cultural traditions and laws protecting respect for the king AND that another`s subjective view that it was too harsh, is just that -- subjective.

Mind you, I don`t subscribe to those above beliefs. I believe the penalty did not fit the crime. Absolutely too harsh.

[fushigi]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Those who are supporters of relativism or subjectivism will say he got what he had coming; his sentence was relative to the place he was at when he committed the crime e.g. cultural traditions and laws protecting respect for the king AND that another`s subjective view that it was too harsh, is just that -- subjective. Mind you, I don`t subscribe to those above beliefs. I believe the penalty did not fit the crime. Absolutely too harsh.

Yeah, the guy's 57 years old. He won't last a week in those Thai prisons.

Poor old drunk.

[jose]

The King might grant a Royal pardon after a short time. when you go to another country you have to obay thier rules, as they do in ours.
In Thailand you learn on your first day the reverence that the people hold thier King in, this guy seems to me was just trying to be an asshole and got caught (he´s been a guest there for ten years)
the Ten years may seem harsh, but had this been done by a Thai person the sentence is twenty years:eek:
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Swiss man admits Thai king insult

[fushigi]

Quote by: jose The King might grant a Royal pardon after a short time. when you go to another country you have to obay thier rules, as they do in ours. In Thailand you learn on your first day the reverence that the people hold thier King in, this guy seems to me was just trying to be an asshole and got caught (he´s been a guest there for ten years)

You're right - anybody who sets foot in Thailand knows from the first minute they're there that the king is sacred to them. He should have known that better than anyone.

But in the end it's just drunken vandalism. We've all done dumb stuff when we were drunk...

I think you're right that the courts are trying to send a message with this conviction - foreigners, respect our king. And that the king will probably pardon him. So the country sends its message, the king gets to look merciful, the Swiss guy gets to go live his days out having drunken sex with Thai ladyboys... everyone wins.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: fushigi ... the Swiss guy gets to go live his days out having drunken sex with Thai ladyboys... everyone wins.

But, will he be allowed to stay? I am guessing that if they consider desecration of the King`s image to be a felony offense, then his visa will be revoked and deported.

Perhaps no more ladyboys for him.

I wonder if they should give him a choice, a public whipping of 20 lashes, or a suitable number to match what 10 years would be worth, and then let him go -- kinda like what they do in Singapore. I remember the case of the delinquent American teenager boy who got caught vandalizing cars there and had to face the whip. He got like 30 or 40 strikes administered by a martial artist using a bamboo cane. I also think that Pres Clinton asked for leniency and they knocked off like 20 strikes from the total.

[Nono]

So where have they stuck the poor old bugger, Bang Kwang? No, it's hard to imagine him making it through the 10 years.

And yes, he was doubtless drunk. But he wasn't just some dumb tourist, he was living in Thailand. Must be a masochist.

Thai prisons are no joke. I've seen the inside (not as a detainee, thank God, but there for the grace of God...).

Lèse majesté my ass. The Thais should be ashamed.

[The Dunedan]

I think there's enough blame to go around here.

Yes, this idiot should have known better. He's lived in Thailand for a decade, and it takes all of 30 seconds to realize how much the King is loved, and how seriously they take such matters.

However, the Thai Gov't really ought to consider endorsing this "Free Speech" concept. Yes, it'd mean people were legally -allowed- to deface the King's portrait...but given that the King's approval rating hovers around 90%*, this hardly seems a major concern.

*It is not illegal to criticize or disapprove of the King in Thailand, but only to insult the Royal Person or display flagrant disrespect. This being the case, I'm inclined to trust those numbers.

[The Decider]

What would a Thai citizen receive as punishment for a similar offense? According to the article, the maximum sentence is 75 years. If Thais are rotting in prison for decades under this law, it may be that this man got a great deal with 10 years, especially since the King can issue a pardon within a year. I'm sure the Swiss government has diplomats working on the pardon application right now. Maybe Thailand will get a "gift" from the Swiss government for its long and dependable relationship with Switzerland. Thais may worship their king, but a few extra baht can grease the wheels of justice when needed.

Let this be a lessen to all you drunken taggers. Stay out of Thailand!

[fushigi]

Quote by: The Decider I'm sure the Swiss government has diplomats working on the pardon application right now.

Actually:

The Swiss Embassy issued a tempered criticism. "We respect the Thai justice system," said Jacques Lauer, deputy chief of mission at the embassy in Bangkok, but he added that it was a "tough" verdict.

Sounds like they're rather turning their back on the man.

Here's something for you all to consider: do you think the "tough" sentence has anything at all to do with the "temporary" military junta (which is gradually becoming a permanent military regime)? Is this a newer, tougher, Thailand? One that won't stand for any more foreign exploitation?

[Nono]

Quote by: Decider I'm sure the Swiss government has diplomats working on the pardon application right now. Maybe Thailand will get a "gift" from the Swiss government for its long and dependable relationship with Switzerland. Thais may worship their king, but a few extra baht can grease the wheels of justice when needed.

I have no special information on this, but I think you're right. I certainly hope so.

Quote by: fushigi Here's something for you all to consider: do you think the "tough" sentence has anything at all to do with the "temporary" military junta (which is gradually becoming a permanent military regime)? Is this a newer, tougher, Thailand? One that won't stand for any more foreign exploitation?

Thailand was never as exploited by foreigners as when it had authoritarian (often military) governments. The latest coup had a lot to do with urbanization and a certain weariness with electoral politics.

[The Decider]

Quote by: fushigi Actually: Sounds like they're rather turning their back on the man.

What do you expect Swiss diplomats to say--"Thailand, you suck?" Not very diplomatic. The Swiss will first acknowledge Thailand's sovereign right to pass and enforce its own laws. Nothing stops Swiss diplomats from helping their own citizen file for a royal pardon.

Quote by: fushigi Here's something for you all to consider: do you think the "tough" sentence has anything at all to do with the "temporary" military junta (which is gradually becoming a permanent military regime)? Is this a newer, tougher, Thailand? One that won't stand for any more foreign exploitation?

So giving this Swiss drunk what may amount to a lenient sentence is evidence of an anti-foreign crackdown by the Thai military? Do you have evidence to support this claim? The Thai military has participated in countless numbers of coups over the past 40 years. Yet Thailand remains one of Southeast Asia's premier destinations for tourists and foreign investors. Thailand always bounces back from these coups because the military is so heavily connected to foreign business and the king. Without the king, the military's power is much less formidable. So naturally any perceived attack on the king is also seen as an attack on the Thai military--the "protector" of Thai nationalism.

This Swiss drunk stumbled into a very sensitive political issue when he spray painted the king's image. As a ten year resident he should have known better. The best thing now is to stay low key and let his lawyers and Swiss diplomats work behind the scenes.

[fushigi]

Quote by: The Decider So giving this Swiss drunk what may amount to a lenient sentence is evidence of an anti-foreign crackdown by the Thai military? Do you have evidence to support this claim?

Nope just speculating (that's why you see all those question marks at the end of my sentences where periods would be if I had any evidence).

As this kind of case hasn't been seen in decades, it'd be very hard to associate the military with this. It's probably a post hoc propter hoc coincidence. Still it'd be interesting to see.

[The Decider]

Quote by: fushigi Nope just speculating (that's why you see all those question marks at the end of my sentences where periods would be if I had any evidence).

Sorry, I read them as rhetorical questions, which normally have some basis in fact.

[fushigi]

Quote by: The Decider Sorry, I read them as rhetorical questions, which normally have some basis in fact.

I guess we need to get a team of fontographers started developing new question mark designs...

But I digress.

[fushigi]

Quote by: The Decider So giving this Swiss drunk what may amount to a lenient sentence is evidence of an anti-foreign crackdown by the Thai military? Do you have evidence to support this claim?

Ah, finally, I knew I'd get some evidence for you eventually. Enjoy:

There is, of course, a difference between reasoned criticism of the king and crude insults that offend many Thais, who see the monarch as a symbol of the nation. It may be more shocking than surprising that a Swiss resident of Thailand, Oliver Jufer, received the draconian sentence of 10 years in prison for drunkenly defacing a picture of the king, or that access to YouTube should be banned for carrying caricatures of the monarch. (According to wire reports, Jufer was pardoned and released on Tuesday.) Nonetheless, there is an evident attempt by the stumbling junta to drum up nationalist sentiment by making a huge fuss about such minor issues. The supposedly liberal-minded opposition Democrat Party has allowed itself to be drawn into this controversy, demanding even stronger action against YouTube.

[fushigi]

Update. He's been pardoned.

The Thai king has pardoned a Swiss man who was given a 10-year sentence for spray-painting over images of the revered monarch, but the longtime Thailand resident has been ordered to leave the country, the police said Thursday. <snip> "The king in his kindness has granted him a pardon, and he has been transferred from prison and is in the process of being deported from the country," said Prachuab Wongsuk, a Chiang Mai police colonel.