"Anti-semitic" Jews

[Nono]

Quote by: Andrew Shamess I want to come out right now and thank the American Jewish Committee for alerting me to a new danger. Beset as we are on all sides by external foes and critics, we must now also contend with the threat of Jewish anti-Semitism. Dr. Alvin H. Rosenfeld’s pamphlet, “‘Progressive’ Thought and the New Anti-Semitism,” published by the AJC and available on their website, has opened my eyes to the menace within our own community.(...) In a mere twenty pages, Dr. Rosenfeld exposes the work of historian Tony Judt, linguist Noam Chomsky and analyst Jacqueline Rose - all scholars at major universities who have made important contributions in their respective fields - as vacuous anti-Semitic nonsense when it comes to the Jewish state. His rhetorical skill shows him to be more than a match for these intellectual heavyweights, by the way. He makes brilliant use of repetition, and adopts a strident tone that renders his conclusions inescapable. He avoids the tedious academic habit of refuting the other person’s argument. Instead, he bases his case on brief quotations. A phrase, or sometimes just a single word from his subject’s writing, is often sufficient to convey its virulent nature.(...)

Gotta love this Andrew Shamess, who rightly puts the boots to those who routinely dismiss any criticism of Israeli policy at all as simply the ravings of anti-Semites. More here: MuzzleWatch » Moses: the First Jewish Anti-Semite (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the AJC)

[shrike]

Criticizing of Israel is not Anti-Semitism like criticizing any other country in the world. Denying Israel right to exist as a Jewish nation state it is. Like if you deny existence of Palestinian nation state you being Anti-Palestinian.
I think it’s pretty simple.

[Nono]

Careful there, shrike, or you'll get yourself branded as a rabid Jew-hater by the Israel lobby in the US. Take Uri Avnery (http://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/uri.html), for example, who most certainly does not question Israel's right to exist. Ask the Israel lobby about him and they'll tell you in a confidential tone that, sadly, there are anti-Semites even among the Jews ...

That's what Shamess is talking about.

[arielmessenger]

It is Zionist Jews who are the real "anti-Semites" when they consistently choose to support the aggression of non-Semitic European Askenazi majority Jews and Israelis over Semitic Palestinians.

[Nono]

Word games, ariel. Let's stay on-topic. Rather than the misleading term "anti-Semitic", let's agree to call it "anti-Jewish". That clear enough?

[The Decider]

Quote by: shrike Criticizing of Israel is not Anti-Semitism like criticizing any other country in the world. Denying Israel right to exist as a Jewish nation state it is. Like if you deny existence of Palestinian nation state you being Anti-Palestinian. I think it’s pretty simple.

Shrike, there are Jews in America who NEVER supported Israel's existence, for religious reasons. Are they "anti-semites" or "anti-Israelis?"

Jews don't have to support Israel--either physically or politically--to be Jews.

[arielmessenger]

It goes to a propensity to foist lies onto the world in order to get what they want. Israel is what they want instead of a homeland for European Jews with no Semitic ties to Semitic peoples of Palestine.

[GHook93]

Quote by: The Decider Shrike, there are Jews in America who NEVER supported Israel's existence, for religious reasons. Are they "anti-semites" or "anti-Israelis?" Jews don't have to support Israel--either physically or politically--to be Jews.

Again speaking out of your a-hole. 99.9% of American Jews believe in Israel's right to exist!

[shrike]

Quote by: nono Uri Avnery (http://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/uri.html), for example, who most certainly does not question Israel's right to exist

Of course he does.He support so called "right or return" i.e end of Jewish state.

Ask the Israel lobby about him and they'll tell you in a confidential tone that, sadly, there are anti-Semites even among the Jews ...

Of course there is. There were always self hating Jews its really nothing new.
Self-hating Jew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shrike, there are Jews in America who NEVER supported Israel's existence, for religious reasons. Are they "anti-semites" or "anti-Israelis?"

Support and actively oppose a different things. There is many people in world they don't support Israel they just don't care. But actively opposing the Jewish state meeting with it enemies and doing everything to destroy the only safe haven that Jews have it being against Jews as simple as that.

Jews don't have to support Israel--either physically or politically--to be Jews

.
Never said otherwise read my answer to Nono about self hating Jews.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: shrike ...doing everything to destroy the only safe haven that Jews have ...

...the only safe haven Jews have...

Are all the rest of the world's Jews being hounded to the death?

Get real, shrike. I wonder how come a certain member is not branding YOU as delusional...

[The Decider]

Quote by: shrike Of course there is. There were always self hating Jews its really nothing new. Self-hating Jew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Support and actively oppose a different things. There is many people in world they don't support Israel they just don't care. But actively opposing the Jewish state meeting with it enemies and doing everything to destroy the only safe haven that Jews have it being against Jews as simple as that. . Never said otherwise read my answer to Nono about self hating Jews.

You should read your own Wiki link, shrike. "Self-hating" Jews is an epithet--and an ugly one at that--used by some Jews against others for political reasons AND to dismiss so-called "not devout or faithful" Jews for not practicing their religion. That would include a very large percentage of American Jews who identify themselves in cultural rather than religious terms. In other words, it's a load of bullshit--a guilt trip by religious and politically conservative Jews for the purpose of shaming their Jewish opponents.

Even the late Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was labeled a "self-hating Jew" by right wing Israeli nut jobs. During his last election you could find posters of Rabin dressed in a Nazi Brown Shirt uniform all over Tel Aviv solely because he supported the Oslo Peace Accords. Whatever right wing Israelis think of past peace negotiations, they were not done to "destroy Israel" (ie former general Rabin did not negotiate out of "self hatred.").

I don't hate myself for being Jewish. I despise my current US government for backing every hare-brained scheme concocted by Olmert and Company in the name of "Israeli Security." Lebanon II was only the latest failure.

[The Decider]

Quote by: GHook93 Again speaking out of your a-hole.

What a stunning comeback. Did you ponder that one all day?

Quote by: GHook93 99.9% of American Jews believe in Israel's right to exist!

Did I say otherwise? Some Hasidic Jews in New York, especially the ultra-orthodox Haredi Jews NEVER supported Israel or Zionism and would not mind in the least if Israel disappeared as a political entity. They take that position for religious regions, or did you miss that part during your all day attempt to craft your "a-hole" zinger?

Haredi Judaism - Ultra-Orthodox Jews - Haredim

I support Israel's right to exist, unlike some here. But I also support a political solution to the crisis, not Lebanon II style quagmires. For that I get branded a "self-hating Jew" by some Jews (not necessarily Shrike...yet).

Take a day...maybe two...for your detailed counterargument. You have several orifices to choose from.

[shrike]

Quote by: The Decider You should read your own Wiki link, shrike. "Self-hating" Jews is an epithet--and an ugly one at that--used by some Jews against others for political reasons AND to dismiss so-called "not devout or faithful" Jews for not practicing their religion. That would include a very large percentage of American Jews who identify themselves in cultural rather than religious terms. In other words, it's a load of bullshit--a guilt trip by religious and politically conservative Jews for the purpose of shaming their Jewish opponents.

Of course self hating Jews don't want to call it that way so they create the controversy the fact is. There was always Jews that acted against their fellow people.

Even the late Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was labeled a "self-hating Jew" by right wing Israeli nut jobs.

I like to see a link

During his last election you could find posters of Rabin dressed in a Nazi Brown Shirt uniform all over Tel Aviv solely because he supported the Oslo Peace Accords. Whatever right wing Israelis think of past peace negotiations, they were not done to "destroy Israel" (ie former general Rabin did not negotiate out of "self hatred.").

Only it was Shin Bet agent who distributed the posters.
j. - Spying on right adds twists in assassination probe

I don't hate myself for being Jewish. I despise my current US government for backing every hare-brained scheme concocted by Olmert and Company in the name of "Israeli Security." Lebanon II was only the latest failure

Like I said before it’s perfectly OK to criticize Israel like any other country in the world.I think by criticizing it you want to improve things not to destroy Israel.

[shrike]

Quote by: PatrickHenry ...the only safe haven Jews have... Are all the rest of the world's Jews being hounded to the death? Get real, shrike. I wonder how come a certain member is not branding YOU as delusional...

You could say the same thing before Nazis came to power. Jews back that had full rights and had total freedom in Western Europe. But when trouble began no one cared about the Jews. So after what happened to the Jewish people they should be one a safe side and that was one of the main reasons that Israel was created. So they always have the option to come to Israel. In WW2 there was no such option.

[arielmessenger]

What a fiasco! A self-claimed moral religion creates a human rights monstrosity and because the religionists believe themselves superior to their victims they never learn to live in peace with their neighbors.

Israel has become the moral graveyard of Zionist Judaism with Jerusalem marking its tombstone. Judaism will never ever regain moral authority now that Israel has exposed the racist core of the religion in its apartheid treatment of Palestinian Arabs.