Is China a communist, totalitarian country?

[fushigi]

I was debating with brien on another thread about this, and decided to see how you smart kids felt on the subject.

Totalitarian?
Totalitarian implies that a one-party state has a monopolistic control on all economic, political, social, and cultural facets of every citizen's life. In political journals, China is often referred to as authoritarian, because its one-party government no longer enjoys such a monopoly. The economy has been rapidly privatizing since the "reform and opening" movement was initiated in 1978; now, the majority of state-owned enterprises have been privatized by domestic entrepreneurs or, more often, foreign investors. In fact, business is booming so rapidly in China that the phenomenon of xiahai (literally, "jump into the sea") entrepreneurs leaving the government to engage in private enterprise has left the Communist Party (CCP) with a recruitment problem: the party's simply not the only economic game in town anymore.

However, the CCP is still in complete control of politics. That is true.

As for social and cultural control, the party also has a firm grip thanks to the propaganda it feeds the people with from elementary school on. However, things are changing with the development of the internet, which is providing a very small outlet and inlet for news and innovative ideas.

Communist?
Communism implies that the state has total control over the economy, which, as I mentioned above, is not true. China's been a part of the WTO since 2001, which enforces its reciprocal trade requirements with all member states. Foreign investment in 2005 surpassed US $700 billion, and this year's economic watershed China's banking system also opened to foreign entry.

In fact, all one has to do is come to Beijing (you can stay in our spare bedroom ) to see all the getihu - private businesspeople, selling their wares on blankets and carts at every street corner. These sales are completely unlicensed, and the government turns a blind eye to it.

Communist? Totalitarian? What's your view?

[tinybear]

Totalitarian, yes. Communist? No. In many ways China has become more capitalist than Hong Kong in recent years. :)

[PatrickHenry]

Commie shapeshifters...

BTW, is the porn industry thriving in the Land of Mao?

[fushigi]

Commie shapeshifters...

BTW, is the porn industry thriving in the Land of Mao?

Ah, more on the antitotalitarianization of China (is that a word by the way?).

Yes, porn is widely available in China. Every street vendor selling magazines and books (they're EVERYWHERE) has pornographic books and magazines for sale. Every daoban ("pirate") DVD shop has an abundance of huangse ("yellow" or pornographic) DVDs for sale (the most popular one right now, believe it or not, is called Comfort Women.

This is all done despite extreme restrictions by the government, and this is Beijing I'm talking about here, not some far-off provincial backwater. Right under the government's nose. They simply have no way to stop it, unless they want to seal off their borders again, which would have a disastrous effect on their economy.

Like I said, it ain't a Candyland of freedom, but it certainly can't be considered a totalitarian state anymore.

[another day]

Like I said, it ain't a Candyland of freedom, but it certainly can't be considered a totalitarian state anymore.

Well I don't know I think the term totalitarian is best applied as an indication of what the government WANTS, not necessarily the degree to which they are able to enforce it. The clear thing is that the Chinese government IS totalitarian in nature. They seek to control their population to meet a regimen of strict rules which they think will create a "better society". Whether or not they are 100% efficient in doing so does not mean they are not authoritarian.

[Osborn F Enready]

I think it is clear by power maintenance, they are both totalitarian AND communist.

They are totalitiarian for obvious reasons, namely, the politics of the nation and the comparable decisions and manipulation techniques.

They are communist because that money is horded by the state for the war chest, not the people, at the expense of the people, whom they deny equal market access.

[fushigi]

Well I don't know I think the term totalitarian is best applied as an indication of what the government WANTS, not necessarily the degree to which they are able to enforce it. The clear thing is that the Chinese government IS totalitarian in nature. They seek to control their population to meet a regimen of strict rules which they think will create a "better society". Whether or not they are 100% efficient in doing so does not mean they are not authoritarian.

By your definition the US has a totalitarian regime, just substitute neocon for CCP.

In fact, many American regimes have wanted to "control their population to meet a regimen of strict rules which they think will create a 'better society,'" certainly you could include FDR and LBJ.

[fushigi]

I think it is clear by power maintenance, they are both totalitarian AND communist.

They are totalitiarian for obvious reasons, namely, the politics of the nation and the comparable decisions and manipulation techniques.

Totalitarian means having a monopoly control of the economy. How is that possible when $562 billion worth of FDI gave shareholder positions to over 500,000 foreign companies from 1978-2004, and foreign banks have already opened on Chinese soil?

China's economy during the last quarter century has changed from a centrally planned system that was largely closed to international trade to a more market-oriented economy that has a rapidly growing private sector and is a major player in the global economy.

They are communist because that money is horded by the state for the war chest, not the people, at the expense of the people, whom they deny equal market access.

Again, as I mentioned in my original post, the CCP may have first dibs at the economy but they certainly aren't free to horde it. Its total revenues for 2005 were $446.6 billion while its total GDP was over $2 trillion, by my calculations that gives the gov't about 25% control of the economy. (Compare that to the US, $2.4 trillion in revenues with a GDP of $13.2 trillion is about 18%.)

You're right that China spends a lot on its military between $65 and $100B out of a total budget of $489.6B or roughly 20%. That gives China a slice of the pie that looks like this:


I won't defend spending 20% of your budget on the military, that's just paranoid or suspicious. But it certainly doesn't make China a communist or totalitarian country by my mark.

[Milton Bradley]

I think Pat has the best characterization thus far, "Shape Shifters". Clearly they are changing the rules, but with the power that the government has, they can promptly just change the rules back any time they desire.

Well I don't know I think the term totalitarian is best applied as an indication of what the government WANTS, not necessarily the degree to which they are able to enforce it. The clear thing is that the Chinese government IS totalitarian in nature. They seek to control their population to meet a regimen of strict rules which they think will create a "better society". Whether or not they are 100% efficient in doing so does not mean they are not authoritarian.

Indeed, there can be no doubt that they have acted the part of both communist, and totalitarian in recent history.


What are they right this minute?


I would say the paw prints give it away.

( for the Bugs Bunny fans )
We weren't following train tracks.

[Osborn F Enready]

Fushigi said:
Totalitarian means having a monopoly control of the economy.

They do, and the currency.

They can nationalize ALL of that privatized business with the drop of a hat.
Why? Who controls the goverment? Who controls the currency valuation?

Fushigi said:
CIA World Factbook

I know, and often look at the "CIA world factbook", and trust it for factual validity as much as I do "White House Press Statements".

Fushigi said:
But it certainly doesn't make China a communist or totalitarian country by my mark.

No, it doesn't, but everything else, the FACTS, actually do point to that.

[shrike]

Of course they not communist .There was never a communist country in a history and the will never be one.

[Osborn F Enready]

Shrike said:
Of course they not communist .There was never a communist country in a history and the will never be one.

Just like there is no Israel, right?
Just like no holocaust, right?

LOL

Please, elaborate if you expect to be taken seriously.