The Battle for Haifa Street

[RickSp]

If you wish to see the folly of the “new” Bush administration “secure and hold” strategy one need only to look a thousand yards or so from the Assassin’s Gate entrance to the Green Zone, the heart of the American occupation of Iraq. If you looked today, you would see an ongoing battle on Haifa Street between American and Iraqi forces and the insurgency.
New push to control Baghdad area

In some respects this is just the continuation of a three-day battle earlier this month when almost 1,000 US and Iraqi troops supported by US helicopter gunshots attempted and failed to dislodge an undetermined number of insurgents.
Baghdad street becomes new Fallujah

Haifa Street has been a battleground since shortly after the fall of Baghdad. It quickly earned the nickname “Grenade Alley,” or “Purple Heart Boulevard” by the US troops who came under repeated attack.
Patrols Turn Ugly on Baghdad's Haifa Street

After 18 months of fighting, the US thought that they Haifa Street under control or close to it. By May of 2005, security was turned over to the Iraqis. Tide May Be Turning on Iraq's Street of Fear

A violent street finds calm

The military hoped that ""Haifa" will serve as a template for spreading government control across Iraq and undercutting the insurgency." Obviously, it hasn't turned out that way. Conditions have gotten progressively worse.
Haifa Street in Baghdad - a timeline

After almost four years of war, the US and the Iraqi government still do not control Haifa Street even though some of the fiercest fighting has been only 1,000 yards from the US bastion, the Green Zone.

If the US and the Iraqi forces cannot hold a two mile strip of pavement in the shadow of the Green Zone, how will a 20,000 troop "Surge" have any hope of stabilizing all of Baghdad as well as Anbar province? How is the "surge" anything but empty sloganeering?

[Technosoul]

One might wonder how is it that the Green Zone is so secure, secure enough so that many important poltical leaders from the USA can visit "Irag" while remaining in that fairly safe area of the country. Why is the harbor and airport safe as well as the actural oil fields where Halliburton workers are at most of the time?

One thing about roadways is that the radical factors can plant remote control bombs along the highway at night and then wait for our troops, or others, to drive by the spot - then Kaboom. Perhaps the military should concider some "off the road" ways to reach thier intended locations. For even if they did secure that two mile road they would just relocate and put bombs at another road, and wait there for our "sitting duck" troops to pass by or forien workers.

If we want the new Iraq government to be secure why not move them (it) into our Green Zone, along with their military police so they can have a safe zone out of which to operate? Why should the government people remain in Bagdad while it is still not a safe place to be at? The Democrats want some new ideas - well - I just gave them one.

However Bagdad is important as it is the only real city in the whole country that is made out of more then mud and clay.

The problem with the new surge plan is that it cannot totally work. If they clear an area and then hold it with lots of troop presense then those who cannot come back to the secure areas will start trouble elsewhere, and if we cannot take troops out of the newly secured areas to move on to other trouble spots then you have not solved the problem, only moved it to another location. It would seem. Unless they make a lot of arrests and put them in prisons, and if the new Iraq government does not set them free (again) as a trade for more poltical power via a "special deal" made with terrorist like insurgents.

It looks like Bush will get another six months to employ his "surge upon the insurgents plan". So we will soon know if it is effective or not.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Technosoul One might wonder how is it that the Green Zone is so secure, secure enough so that many important poltical leaders from the USA can visit "Irag" while remaining in that fairly safe area of the country. Why is the harbor and airport safe as well as the actural oil fields where Halliburton workers are at most of the time?

What are you talking about? Which "harbor" are you referring to? Baghdad is inland on the banks of the Tigris, but has no harbor per se. The airport is relatively safe but the road to and from the airport is notoriously dangerous.

Quote by: Technosoul One thing about roadways is that the radical factors can plant remote control bombs along the highway at night and then wait for our troops, or others, to drive by the spot - then Kaboom. Perhaps the military should concider some "off the road" ways to reach thier intended locations. For even if they did secure that two mile road they would just relocate and put bombs at another road, and wait there for our "sitting duck" troops to pass by or forien workers.

If you had read the articles on Haifa Street you would see that the majority of the recent attacks have been coordinated groups of fighters, not IEDs. Suggesting that troops go "off the road" in large crowded city is pretty funny.

Quote by: Technosoul If we want the new Iraq government to be secure why not move them (it) into our Green Zone, along with their military police so they can have a safe zone out of which to operate? Why should the government people remain in Bagdad while it is still not a safe place to be at? The Democrats want some new ideas - well - I just gave them one.

The Iraqi government is already in the Green Zone. Leaving Baghdad would strip them of any of the limited credibility that they currently have.

Quote by: Technosoul However Bagdad is important as it is the only real city in the whole country that is made out of more then mud and clay.

Oh Jaysus. Any other silly stereotypes you might like to throw in? Iraq is a largely urban country. Almost 70% of the population lives in urban areas. Baghdad is a city of over 4 million, whereas Irbil is over 2 million and Mosul has a population of over 1 million. Suggesting that Baghdad is the only city "made out of more then mud and clay" is absurd.

[Gods_Mercenary]

I think that could go in the idiotic quotes thread.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: RickSp What are you talking about? Which "harbor" are you referring to? Baghdad is inland on the banks of the Tigris, but has no harbor per se. The airport is relatively safe but the road to and from the airport is notoriously dangerous. If you had read the articles on Haifa Street you would see that the majority of the recent attacks have been coordinated groups of fighters, not IEDs. Suggesting that troops go "off the road" in large crowded city is pretty funny. The Iraqi government is already in the Green Zone. Leaving Baghdad would strip them of any of the limited credibility that they currently have. Oh Jaysus. Any other silly stereotypes you might like to throw in? Iraq is a largely urban country. Almost 70% of the population lives in urban areas. Baghdad is a city of over 4 million, whereas Irbil is over 2 million and Mosul has a population of over 1 million. Suggesting that Baghdad is the only city "made out of more then mud and clay" is absurd.

Yes they have a place on the Tigris where oil ships port to transport oil to other nations, it is called a harbor because of the many ships that use that location, also to unload supplies for Iraq. Our military even has employed "bomb detecting" trained Dolphins to patrol the Tigris harbor area.

So it is a large city with only one road going through it? But you are right, today they started to shoot at those who are in tall buildings near that road, they pretty much would have to clear out and secure all those buildings near the road just north of the Green Zone gates. I am sure if our troops gave it all they got they could secure that road. The road to the airport is much longer and would take a large number of people to monitor.

Well, on the news they look like clay houses to me. I have not been there so cannot say for sure. If the Government is already in the Green Zone then why is Bush saying we need to secure their neighborhood? Did he mean where they once were? I might have missunderstood his reasons for the surge in troop activity.

And so the question is this, how many of those 4 million in Bagdad are insurgents and how many really like the USA and the new Irag Government, they voted for those guys, so how come those 4 million people are allowing those radicals to distroy what they voted for? And how can 20.000 army people deal with 4 million potential "suspects" without damaging our relationship with those among the 4 million who favor Democarcy?

You have no doubt researched that street better then I did, and so I thank you for repremanding me for any errors I made about that street. But it will be a rocky road for those who take part in the surge on the insurgents. Making that area safe is vital to the other intended undertakings being mapped out, I would think.

And so the question is one that needs an answer - why have they not secured it before now? Miss-managment of troop activity or what?

[RickSp]

Quote by: Technosoul Yes they have a place on the Tigris where oil ships port to transport oil to other nations, it is called a harbor because of the many ships that use that location, also to unload supplies for Iraq. Our military even has employed "bomb detecting" trained Dolphins to patrol the Tigris harbor area.

Excuse me? The Tigris at Baghdad is only navigable by small craft. There are no major oil export terminals anywhere near Baghdad. The only port that fits your description is Umm Qasr in the the extreme south of the country. Oil also moves through the Shat Al Arab in Basrah. Look at a map.

Quote by: Technosoul And so the question is one that needs an answer - why have they not secured it before now? Miss-managment of troop activity or what?

An insurgency is only successful if is has popular support. On Haifa Street and in the surrounding neighborhoods it obviously does. Add in sectarian violence and you have a situation where a few thousand additional American troops is likely only to make things worse.

[The_Genius]

I'm just wondering, how long is this Haifa street?

[brien]

Itis my understanding the same amount of troops two years ago didn't secure the nation so just how has anything changed in that respect? Except maybe there are more insurgents now.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Bush is getting more desperate.

[RickSp]

CBS News video from last week - The Battle for Haifa Street. Worth watching.