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kilkee · Jan 22, 2007, 08:45 pm

Canadian Proportional Representation

By

James Bredin

For five minutes every five years we get a chance to change,
Rearrange our pompous politicians, who may be deranged,
But we can’t change the political system of first-past-the-post,
As we watch those erroneously elected celebrate and boast.

Canadians don’t realize the problems of first-past-the-post,
Think it’s democracy if elected candidate wins with the most,
But with more than two candidates and combined loosers have more,
As majority try to make sense of the obscure final score.

Because they are not represented by the one who was elected,
Their votes were split among the several others they selected,
The system should be changed to proportional representation,
So the votes of the majority are not lost in frustration.

Lots of wasted time and votes as though given away for free,
It should be according to the voters’ preferences -- one, two, three,
Press a button and a computer will say who is elected,
Closer to democracy and what everyone expected.

Proportional representation, like referendums and recall,
Not much thought about in Canadian politics at all,
Where lawyers say that Trudeau’s Charter for “EVERYONE” is okay,
Incoming refugees and terrorists all claiming rights to stay.

Sunday, January 21, 2007

Praxius · Jan 23, 2007, 10:48 am

There has been a lot of talk in the last two/three elections about changing it to this method, but I still doubt it would make a big improvement on our government.

Jern_Sandyer · Jan 23, 2007, 02:25 pm

If there were to be a change to proportional representation there would have to be a major swing in public opinion for people to even support the concept which I don't think will happen soon as the any political party that is elected to office (Liberals or Conservative) would not want to change a system in which they would get less seats as more of the less popular parties (Green who have 4.49% of popualr vote) would finally get seats in the House. First we need to change public opinion towards electoral change so that they actually do something instead of just complaining as 50% of our population does. (the other 50% are those of us that are actually trying to do something(which is like 0.1%), those who are enjoying the Conservatives or don't care at all about Politics.)

kilkee · Jan 23, 2007, 07:14 pm

I'll admit I don't have all the answers and as I look around I don't see too many politicians to have the answers.

But I do know that the people themselves have very little power. They are led by a group in Ottawa who seem to have a hidden agenda. It is almost impossible to tell who is pulling the strings.

Therefore we the people need binding referendums, like Switzerland, where the politicians are obliged to follow the people rather than the other way around.

We should also have a system where politicians who are constantly absent, drunk, on drugs or change parties, can be recalled by their constituents.

Power to the people.

Jern_Sandyer · Jan 24, 2007, 03:39 pm

Quote:

Quote by: kilkee

Therefore we the people need binding referendums, like Switzerland, where the politicians are obliged to follow the people rather than the other way around.

We should also have a system where politicians who are constantly absent, drunk, on drugs or change parties, can be recalled by their constituents.

Power to the people.

I agree, we need to have more measures in place to have our representatives acountable to us at all times instead of just at elections which they woo people right before then so that they forget all there misgivings. Also I think that our MPs should have a rule making them spend time with the 'people' they represent. I find that aldermen represent there peoples views best because A/ they don't have party loyalty and B/ they interect with the people they represent more and they don't have levels of secrecy to hide behind.

sdbest · Jan 28, 2007, 12:49 pm

Most of the ills associated with all voting systems can be resolved by getting rid of the vote. We could choose our representatives by lot and avoid much grief, corruption, and self-serving policy. It's the vote that destroys democracy.

Everyone (qualified by age, citizenship, of sound mind, not a convict, etc.) who wants to be a representative in whatever legislative assembly should submit their names . A random selection is then made, perhaps by the Governor General. Such a system, not unlike the jury system, would eliminate all the problems associated with campaigns, fund raising, election promises, underrepresented segments of society, etc. And, it would likely produce representatives no better or worse than those who we have now. There are precedents for this.

In Ontario, the notion of choosing by lot is held in enough esteem that it was the means whereby the citizens assembly was chosen to consider reforming the voting system.

Regards
S.

Jan 22, 2007, 08:45 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
kilkee Molten Ash Location: Toronto Posts: 39	Canadian Proportional Representation Canadian Proportional Representation By James Bredin For five minutes every five years we get a chance to change, Rearrange our pompous politicians, who may be deranged, But we can’t change the political system of first-past-the-post, As we watch those erroneously elected celebrate and boast. Canadians don’t realize the problems of first-past-the-post, Think it’s democracy if elected candidate wins with the most, But with more than two candidates and combined loosers have more, As majority try to make sense of the obscure final score. Because they are not represented by the one who was elected, Their votes were split among the several others they selected, The system should be changed to proportional representation, So the votes of the majority are not lost in frustration. Lots of wasted time and votes as though given away for free, It should be according to the voters’ preferences -- one, two, three, Press a button and a computer will say who is elected, Closer to democracy and what everyone expected. Proportional representation, like referendums and recall, Not much thought about in Canadian politics at all, Where lawyers say that Trudeau’s Charter for “EVERYONE” is okay, Incoming refugees and terrorists all claiming rights to stay. Sunday, January 21, 2007 “A society of sheep will eventually get a government of wolves”… Bernard de Jouvenal

Jan 23, 2007, 02:25 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Jern_Sandyer Intriguied Observer Location: Alberta, Oil Central Posts: 133	If there were to be a change to proportional representation there would have to be a major swing in public opinion for people to even support the concept which I don't think will happen soon as the any political party that is elected to office (Liberals or Conservative) would not want to change a system in which they would get less seats as more of the less popular parties (Green who have 4.49% of popualr vote) would finally get seats in the House. First we need to change public opinion towards electoral change so that they actually do something instead of just complaining as 50% of our population does. (the other 50% are those of us that are actually trying to do something(which is like 0.1%), those who are enjoying the Conservatives or don't care at all about Politics.) I doubt my sanity; yet again I doubt yours as well I am Moth, watch me fly. I am heading for your light.

Jan 23, 2007, 07:14 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
kilkee Molten Ash Location: Toronto Posts: 39	I'll admit I don't have all the answers and as I look around I don't see too many politicians to have the answers. But I do know that the people themselves have very little power. They are led by a group in Ottawa who seem to have a hidden agenda. It is almost impossible to tell who is pulling the strings. Therefore we the people need binding referendums, like Switzerland, where the politicians are obliged to follow the people rather than the other way around. We should also have a system where politicians who are constantly absent, drunk, on drugs or change parties, can be recalled by their constituents. Power to the people. “A society of sheep will eventually get a government of wolves”… Bernard de Jouvenal

Jan 23, 2007, 10:48 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Praxius Mass'Debator Posts: 4,723	There has been a lot of talk in the last two/three elections about changing it to this method, but I still doubt it would make a big improvement on our government.

Jan 28, 2007, 12:49 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
sdbest No prisoners! Location: Southern Ontario, Canada Posts: 921	Most of the ills associated with all voting systems can be resolved by getting rid of the vote. We could choose our representatives by lot and avoid much grief, corruption, and self-serving policy. It's the vote that destroys democracy. Everyone (qualified by age, citizenship, of sound mind, not a convict, etc.) who wants to be a representative in whatever legislative assembly should submit their names . A random selection is then made, perhaps by the Governor General. Such a system, not unlike the jury system, would eliminate all the problems associated with campaigns, fund raising, election promises, underrepresented segments of society, etc. And, it would likely produce representatives no better or worse than those who we have now. There are precedents for this. In Ontario, the notion of choosing by lot is held in enough esteem that it was the means whereby the citizens assembly was chosen to consider reforming the voting system. Regards S.