MLK & Israel's Wrong

[GHook93]

Quote by: The_Genius Athena, Pikatore... ...you see, no one is denying that there are Islamic extremists out there, not even me.

Of course you don't. LOL you, ByaKya and Pikatore agree and sympathize with them. I wouldn't be suprised if you actively contribute to the "cause."

[pikatore]

Quote by: GHook93 Of course you don't. LOL you, ByaKya and Pikatore agree and sympathize with them. I wouldn't be suprised if you actively contribute to the "cause."

Wow. that wasnt very nice. did i ever say that i supported thier cause? did i ever support thier attacks?

i merely said that israel shouldnt be where it is, whether or not the surrounding countries were european or martian. you show the classic example of hastily drawing conclusions and prejudging people who think certain things.

[GHook93]

Quote by: pikatore Wow. that wasnt very nice. did i ever say that i supported thier cause? did i ever support thier attacks? i merely said that israel shouldnt be where it is, whether or not the surrounding countries were european or martian. you show the classic example of hastily drawing conclusions and prejudging people who think certain things.

Calling for Israel destruction (which this line means "i merely said that israel shouldnt be where it is") is symathizing with the cause!

[pikatore]

Quote by: GHook93 Calling for Israel destruction (which this line means "i merely said that israel shouldnt be where it is") is symathizing with the cause!

The cause? Or the principle?

I didn't say the ends justified the means. You are still drawing assumptions. I never said that israel should be removed. I say it should never have been there. I support a two state solution.

I dont blame you if you are feeling a bit foolish.

[GHook93]

Quote by: pikatore The cause? Or the principle? I didn't say the ends justified the means. You are still drawing assumptions. I never said that israel should be removed. I say it should never have been there. I support a two state solution. I dont blame you if you are feeling a bit foolish.

The only thing I feel foolish about is responding to you. How you form assumptions is off of what a person writes.

Your posts lead to:
1) Your more than anti-Zionist, your anti-semitic
2) You don't support a two solution. You support the destruction of Israel and a Palestinian State.
3) You support the CAUSE
4) You support the means the terrorist accomplish it.

[pikatore]

Quote by: GHook93 The only thing I feel foolish about is responding to you. How you form assumptions is off of what a person writes. Your posts lead to: 1) Your more than anti-Zionist, your anti-semitic 2) You don't support a two solution. You support the destruction of Israel and a Palestinian State. 3) You support the CAUSE 4) You support the means the terrorist accomplish it.

1) Yes. I am anti-Zionist.
2) Rubbish. Tell me where I said I supported the destruction of Israel. I've already said I supported a two state solution.
3) If the cause is to destroy Israel, then no.
4) Now you are pushing buttons. I don't think I'd be trolling if I were to question your sanity in saying something like that.

[Jack]

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[Athena]

Please folks, we are very lucky to have Strike to present a point of view that is having such an important role in world history at this time. I hope another with his point of view will join these debates and support Shrike. Only by sharing our points of view will we gain understanding. However, let us stick with issues and avoid making individuals the subject of discussion. Let us all try to be the best human beings we can be- and not be part of the problem.

[rez]

Quote by: Athena Please folks, we are very lucky to have Strike to present a point of view that is having such an important role in world history at this time. I hope another with his point of view will join these debates and support Shrike. Only by sharing our points of view will we gain understanding. However, let us stick with issues and avoid making individuals the subject of discussion. Let us all try to be the best human beings we can be- and not be part of the problem.

I agree. Let's see where the major differences are within the debate.

Quote by: shrike Again this religious bullshit. This has nothing to do with history and real facts.

I will admit, I am not well educated about Zionism and Arab hatred so I may be a little confused. I see no other reason why Jews would want to claim Israel as home, other then for religious reasons. If you claim the land is not for religious reasons, then how will owning a piece of land stop antisemitism?

Quote by: The_Genius One of the main reasons behind Israeli-Palestinian conflict is 'misunderstanding of religious history'. The Jews think they own the region because:

The funny thing is when I claimed that Zionism and the Jewish faith were one in the same, Mr. Genius decided to tell me how they were not.

Quote by: The_Genius yes, Zionists are trying to corrupt the world. I don't think 'Jews' are trying to corrupt the world. Zionism and Judaism are two different things.

It seems as though the disagreements stem from the philosophies of Theocracy and Democracy.

Israel is a democracy and Islam a Theocracy. Obviously, a Democracy is more tolerant of religious beliefs then a Theocracy, therefore, are more willing to allow non-practicing ideals flurish.

Quote by: shrike Palestinians don’t care about their own civilians lives. Israel wanted always to stop terrorists from reaching civilian population and minimize the civilian casualties of other side. Its the main reason for all there precision strikes and not carpet bombings(like Russia for example). The Palestinian goal is quite the opposite they don't care for their own population and use it at as human shields and of course they maim target is mostly civilians.

Shrike, with the western mentally, would say something like this because he values life in a different way. I would compare Muslims blowing themselves up to the Japanese ritual of Seppuku, where a citizen would commit suicide to avoid falling into the enemies hands.

So when someone says something like

Quote by: The_Genius As far as I know, according to Jewish doctrines, their Messiah will arrive on Earth and take them to Jerusalem (kinda like Moses).

It will be taken as a joke because this is not how the modern world solves problems.

My concern about this whole land issue deals with Islams desire for a Theocracy. The President of one of the most powerful Islamic states denying the Holocaust is a prime example of willful ignorance. When someone attributes personal beliefs with truth I become turned off. When women can not be treated as equals to men, I become turned off and unwilling to sympathize.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Athena Please folks, we are very lucky to have Strike to present a point of view that is having such an important role in world history at this time. I hope another with his point of view will join these debates and support Shrike. Only by sharing our points of view will we gain understanding. However, let us stick with issues and avoid making individuals the subject of discussion. Let us all try to be the best human beings we can be- and not be part of the problem.

100% agree with that. He is the only on the frontlines that has first hand accounts, but by people constantly attacking him, it is a wonder he is still around. Shit it is a wonder why any Jews stay around on such a one-sided board.

[pikatore]

Quote by: GHook93 100% agree with that. He is the only on the frontlines that has first hand accounts, but by people constantly attacking him, it is a wonder he is still around. Shit it is a wonder why any Jews stay around on such a one-sided board.

Well guess what? He would have been living easily out of the range of the rockets. I'm assuming he living in or near Tel Aviv, where he is able to frequenly use the internet.

Secondly, I stayed in Beirut since this war began up until the end of the year, and i'm certain that i was closer to the fighting and saw more of the effects of the war than shrike did.

So the whole 'shrike saw the whole thing, he has the most unbiased opinion, is false, as i claim that i was closer to the violence for that period of time, and actually saw israeli jets bomb the airports, heard the boom of thier engines, and saw the volleys of rockets shot up from hezbollah during the night.

I saw a truck get bombed on the road to Damascus in the middle of the Bakaar Valley, and had to cut around the blast site through the plantations.

But you will then assume that i am Lebanese, or arab in some form, or muslim, all of which is untrue. I have also been to Israel, to Tel Aviv, and I can tell you that they are getting on with thier lives much more easily in the safety of thier city.

It isn't one-sided by the way, when you consider that the U.S is also behind them. The sympathy card doesn't work with Israel. Shrike played it enough times. If it really was one-sided, the Arabs wouldn't have an excuse not to invade and retake land.

Yeah youll say I'm biased anyway for whatever reasons. It's really what you can draw from your judgement and from what limited information you have.

[GHook93]

Quote by: pikatore Well guess what? He would have been living easily out of the range of the rockets. I'm assuming he living in or near Tel Aviv, where he is able to frequenly use the internet. Secondly, I stayed in Beirut since this war began up until the end of the year, and i'm certain that i was closer to the fighting and saw more of the effects of the war than shrike did. Yeah youll say I'm biased anyway for whatever reasons.

No, I would say you are not being truthful. I believe you are sitting safely in an apartment in the States and have never set foot outside of America.

[pikatore]

Quote by: GHook93 No, I would say you are not being truthful. I believe you are sitting safely in an apartment in the States and have never set foot outside of America.

I'm not American, and I have my own reservations about America's government. Your problem is that you like to make too many assumptions.

And you want proof? Cause I took a picture of the bombed truck.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: The_Genius Turkey and Dubai are two far better examples than Israel when it comes to culturally diverse places. Westerners would certainly feel that way... By the way, Ghook, why are you sending me hate PMs? How old are you?

except Jews aren't allowed in Dubai, whereas Israel doesn't specifically ban any culture.
And Turkey? Ask an armenian about that.

[The_Genius]

Quote by: GHook93 100% agree with that. He is the only on the frontlines that has first hand accounts, but by people constantly attacking him, it is a wonder he is still around. Shit it is a wonder why any Jews stay around on such a one-sided board.

He couldn't face the truth and debate with reason, thus he fled. Evidence is in this topic.

[The_Genius]

Quote by: rez I will admit, I am not well educated about Zionism and Arab hatred so I may be a little confused. I see no other reason why Jews would want to claim Israel as home, other then for religious reasons. If you claim the land is not for religious reasons, then how will owning a piece of land stop antisemitism?

But Orthodox / religious are actually against it. :)

The funny thing is when I claimed that Zionism and the Jewish faith were one in the same, Mr. Genius decided to tell me how they were not.

Not all Jews are Zionists, but most Zionists are Jews.

Israel is a democracy and Islam a Theocracy. Obviously, a Democracy is more tolerant of religious beliefs then a Theocracy, therefore, are more willing to allow non-practicing ideals flurish.

Does "Democracy" give one the right to kill unarmed Palestinian children with tanks? It does not happen to Jewish kids in Iran. Shows how hypocritical democracy can be, tolerant theocracy can be. I think your understanding of democracy is purely based on the dictionary than reality.

Shrike, with the western mentally, would say something like this because he values life in a different way. I would compare Muslims blowing themselves up to the Japanese ritual of Seppuku, where a citizen would commit suicide to avoid falling into the enemies hands.

Shows you have never been in a situation where you had to fight in order to liberate your country from Colonists.

It will be taken as a joke because this is not how the modern world solves problems.

So you are saying, orthodox Jews are a joke?

My concern about this whole land issue deals with Islams desire for a Theocracy. The President of one of the most powerful Islamic states denying the Holocaust is a prime example of willful ignorance. When someone attributes personal beliefs with truth I become turned off. When women can not be treated as equals to men, I become turned off and unwilling to sympathize.

Show me proof that 6 million Jews died. Can you? No....

Europeans also died in the Holocaust, not just Jews. That's what Iranian President implied.

[GHook93]

Quote by: The_Genius He couldn't face the truth and debate with reason, thus he fled. Evidence is in this topic.

He didn't want to sit here and get attack each in every way by irrational banter stating that he should either essentially commit suicide or move his lawful country to another destination (something that is impossible).

[The_Genius]

Quote by: GHook93 He didn't want to sit here and get attack each in every way by irrational banter stating that he should either essentially commit suicide or move his lawful country to another destination (something that is impossible).

So did he send you a PM and told you that or you just made that up in your mind?

[GHook93]

QUOTE=The_Genius;331966: But Orthodox / religious are actually against it.

How many orthodox Jews do you know. I have known many, THEY DON'T SHARE THIS VIEW!

Not all Jews are Zionists, but most Zionists are Jews.

Pointing out the obvious.

Does "Democracy" give one the right to kill unarmed Palestinian children with tanks?

No one has the right to kill unharmed people! That includes the Palestinian terrorist that specifically target Israeli women and children. But of course you justify those killings

It does not happen to Jewish kids in Iran. Shows how hypocritical democracy can be, tolerant theocracy can be. I think your understanding of democracy is purely based on the dictionary than reality.

Come on the population in Iran is tiny and shockingly that is the largest in the Middle Eastern world. Furthermore, they are 2nd class citizens, with far fewer rights then the Iranian Muslims. Arab Israelis have the same rights as Jewish Israelis except they have the choice of whether to service in the military or not.

So you are saying, orthodox Jews are a joke?

All religion is essentiallly a joke. Islam and Judism are no different

Show me proof that 6 million Jews died. Can you? No....Europeans also died in the Holocaust, not just Jews. That's what Iranian President implied

It can and has been proven multiple times.
The Iranian President called the Holocaust a myth - That is denying it. So you are a Holocaust denier also? Typical.

[pikatore]

Quote by: GHook93 He didn't want to sit here and get attack each in every way by irrational banter stating that he should either essentially commit suicide or move his lawful country to another destination (something that is impossible).

Please tell me I contributed to this banter, seeing that I have been one of the main opposers to his argument. Tell me that I even IMPLIED that he should kill himself, or move.

You aren't getting it, are you?