"myths And Half-truths About Illegal Immigration"

[weasel]

Just because CNN has stopped talking about illegal immigration doesn't mean this issue has fallen off the map. I present for your consideration an article I found concerning this matter.

MYTHS AND HALF-TRUTHS ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION [Free Republic]

Here's an examples:

"MYTH: Americans won't do the work that illegals do.

TRUTH: Prior to 1965 when the disastrous Immigration Bill was passed, there was very little immigration. In fact, between 1925 and 1965, there was even a period of net emigration out of the United States. During this time, our grass was getting cut, our meat was being packed, our children were being watched and our houses were being cleaned. The idea that somehow we suddenly can't run a country without an unlimited supply of foreigners is absurd.

Those in favor of foreign labor are corporations who are addicted to cheap labor. They are the ones who are benefiting. But their benefit comes at the American tax payer's expense when you consider that the American tax payer is virtually subsidizing the labor costs of the greedy corporations by supplying the illegal foreign workers and their families with welfare, free education, free medical, WICs, housing assistance, etc. -- something the corporations won't do.

Americans won't allow themselves to be exploited like illegals do, but they WILL do the work that illegals do for fair compensation and benefits. If Americans did the work that illegals do at higher pay, would that benefit the consumer? You bet it would in the long run. But many Americans who do not care about America's future are consumers who favor the idea of exploiting illegal workers because it keeps commodity and service prices down in the short term.' "


Your comments are appreciated.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Don't ya think the New republic might be a questionably biased source? Anyway, anyone can see that the bum on the side of the street would take an illegal immigrant's job.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Don't ya think the New republic might be a questionably biased source? Anyway, anyone can see that the bum on the side of the street would take an illegal immigrant's job.

You defame the New Republic, which is a reasonably respectable journal, even if I often disagree with them.

Weasel quotes from the "Free Republic" just another bottom of the bird cage conservative forum. If you click through the link you find that the author is that most profilic writer, anonymous. If you click "anonymous" it sends you to a forum on Glenn Spencer's site. Glen Spencer is an anti-immigration vigilante long assocaited with white supremicist groups.

A typical weasel post.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Whoa, I apologize, probably should've wrote that more carefully. I too have read the New Republic often, although I wouldn't subscribe.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: RickSp Glen Spencer is an anti-immigration vigilante long assocaited with white supremicist groups.

That doesn't make him automatically wrong on this issue.

[Jack]

Perhaps not a truly representative example, but I remember in Idaho seeing the Mexican immigrants working all day at the backbreaking job of hoeing and weeding the sugar-beet fields, with only a water wagon and porta-potty for comfort. I cannot for the life of me see the average American doing that labor. Perhaps if they weren't there, some enterprising person would invent a way to automate the entire process and provide the means for farmers to buy this invention without raising their prices too much. More likely we'd find a way to enable prisoner labor to do the job. But at the moment I see no candidates standing in line to replace the migrant farm workers.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Zeebadee That doesn't make him automatically wrong on this issue.

LOL. So you consider white supremicists to be good spokesmen regarding matters of immigration? That might be more honesty regarding your views about immigrants than you intended.

[deedee]

Quote by: weasel Just because CNN has stopped talking about illegal immigration doesn't mean this issue has fallen off the map. I present for your consideration an article I found concerning this matter. MYTHS AND HALF-TRUTHS ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION [Free Republic] Here's an examples: "MYTH: Americans won't do the work that illegals do..

Fact:

Federal Res. Alan Greenspan has issued a warning to the American population on the need for more immigration. He has repeatedly requested immigration reform to fill our labor shortage needs -- COMPETITIVE labor needs.

I recommend this book to everyone who reads this thread:

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: RickSp LOL. So you consider white supremicists to be good spokesmen regarding matters of immigration? That might be more honesty regarding your views about immigrants than you intended.

And coming to your stated conclusion about who I consider to be "good spokesmen" based on what I posted speaks volumes about your own honesty.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Zeebadee That doesn't make him automatically wrong on this issue.

Quote by: Zeebadee And coming to your stated conclusion about who I consider to be "good spokesmen" based on what I posted speaks volumes about your own honesty.

Nothing dishonest whatsoever. Just reacting to your comment. Glen Spencer is a vigilante thug and a white supremicist. I would say that makes him wrong on a lot of issues not the least his rabid hatred for Mexicans.

You want to agree with him, that's up to you. I might be more careful in picking my allies.

[Fonceai]

I think what weasel is ignoring is that Americans can get away with the same stuff as illegals.

A group of Americans can live exactly the way we perceive is the stereotypical 12 immigrants to a home kind of life.

They could also hop on the trucks in the morning that come by to pick up workers for the day.

They could be doing all the things these immigrants are doing.

And these immigrants are working, saving money, and sometimes even sending money home. They are also usually taking care of other family members.

So as much as I dislike the idea of illegal immigrants, they seem to be able to live and work in this country.

The myth of Americans not doing the work of illegals is not a myth at all. Every time you see a homeless person on the street, ask yourself how much it would cost for that person to go to an outreach program to get a shower and a clean set of clothes to wear to an interview at McDonalds, get a bus pass, and live in a group home of some kind that charges minimal rent.

The answer is, for the majority of places, surprisingly little. For whatever reason, they choose to live their lives this way. My sympathy is spared for others more deserving.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: RickSp Nothing dishonest whatsoever. Just reacting to your comment. Glen Spencer is a vigilante thug and a white supremicist. I would say that makes him wrong on a lot of issues not the least his rabid hatred for Mexicans. You want to agree with him, that's up to you. I might be more careful in picking my allies.

So Spencer has gone from being merely what I consider to be "good spokesmen" to one of my "allies". In fact, I've neither said nor implied any such thing, have I? I've never even said that I agree with him. You're a liar, which pretty much covers the dishonesty issue.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Zeebadee You're a liar, which pretty much covers the dishonesty issue.

So name calling is the best you can do?

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: RickSp So name calling is the best you can do?

If the shoe fits.......

[brien]

The myth of Americans not doing the work of illegals is not a myth at all

And just why is this? It is because illegals will work for less money than native American workers. Mexican illegals live a subsistence lifestyle and yet still manage to sends millions of dollars back to Mexico. This has been documented by the Mexican government.

This problem of Americans not wishing to do the jobs that illegals do is reinforced by the business that hires the illegal worker. If the illegal workers were all made legal, and the businesses that employ them were forced to pay the the glorious minimum wage, do you think they would remain in those jobs? They would magically be made citizens by the US government and thus would qualify for other jobs in the US and would probably abandon their low wage back breaking jobs for better paying jobs that would better match their skills. American business is dead set against this for the same reason America Samoa is exmept from the recent raise in minimum wage law. It will cost them more to pay their workers and thus cost more to bring their products to market, thereby allowing foreign competition to outsell the American product. Or if there is no foreign competiton, then the price of the product would rise, and thus price out some buyers. As for service jobs, the price of the labor would rise because service workers could now quallify for other legal jobs in the nation thereby diminishing the pool of available service workers.

One solution to this problem is to force American business to hire legal American workers. Fine and penalize those that don't and then we will see the true worth of the labor being performed by people who are exploited by American business.

Another solution is to legalize all illegals working now. But be careful what you wish for because when this is accomplished, suddenly there will be 12 million more legal workers in the labor pool all looking for better jobs.

[Fonceai]

@brien

Initially I thought you were disagreeing with me.

Regardless of your intent, it was a great post.

Quote by: brien One solution to this problem is to force American business to hire legal American workers. Fine and penalize those that don't and then we will see the true worth of the labor being performed by people who are exploited by American business.

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

While I dislike illegal immigrants, I can't really blame them for taking advantage of our flawed nation.

I would wholly prefer to punish businesses for using illegal labor.

Quote by: brien Another solution is to legalize all illegals working now. But be careful what you wish for because when this is accomplished, suddenly there will be 12 million more legal workers in the labor pool all looking for better jobs.

A consequence of this action of making it so that those workers must legally be paid minimum wage?

They will find that those companies will stop letting them work. If they have to pay minimum wage for their manual labor, they might as well force people to go through the motions of application and hiring. Good luck for immigrants trying to get a job if they can't speak English.

Or, if those new citizens are willing to keep quiet, they might just let those companies keep them emloyed illegally and promise not to rat them out.

I don't think citizenship should be free, so I'm a big fan of the first option.

[Cephus]

Quote by: RickSp LOL. So you consider white supremicists to be good spokesmen regarding matters of immigration? That might be more honesty regarding your views about immigrants than you intended.

It doesn't matter what he believes or what he does, if he's right, then he's right. You might hate Hitler, but if he said 1+1=2, then he'd be right and it would really be irrelevant what your feelings about him personally were on the matter.

Let's try to keep the logical fallacies to a minimum, shall we?

[rmnunez]

Forcing united statian employers to pay workers higher wages so they had no advantage in hiring undocumenteds could resolve the ilegal immigration problem but it would cause another problem -inflation. Some estimate there are over 20 million Mexicans working in the US, most of them illegally. What effect would result from removing all of them? I doubt there are 20 million unemployed united statians, let alone that they'd be willing to take the positions the deported Mexicans held at the wages those were paid. Unemployment in the US is about 4.5%, this means most united statians can easily find jobs at satisfactory wages, despite the immigrants.

I get the impression those declaiming immigrant workers foolishly hope removing them would instead produce a well-paid and high-quality work environment with all the guarantees, benefits and entitlements in the low-paying activities where immigrants abound. Critical lefties would like busboys at McDonalds, janitors sweeping office lobbies, pizza delivery guys and stockists at supermarket chains to all have full medical coverage, complete optical and dental plans, paid vacations and pension plans, but if this were the case the goods or services these jobs produce would have to cost more.

[Jack]

Just in case you weren't aware, stockers at grocery stores are, in the majority of cases, members of the United Food and Commercial Worker's Union, and thus are receiving medical coverage, paid vacations and retirement plans.

[Compugasm]

I still refuse to shop at Ralphs and Albertsons because those workers went on strike years ago, and closed down almost all the grocery stores in San Diego.