"myths And Half-truths About Illegal Immigration"

[notworthabean]

Quote by: ByaKya This is a ridiculous mindset, and that is why 12 million illegal immigrants should be given amnesty, its the best way to "integration" we will make a new america with more tolerance of others

how is my perfectly factual "mindset" the reason to give amnesty?

[ByaKya]

Quote by: notworthabean to put it simply immigrants often cause problems sometimes

Factual? you babbled out this statement. your argument was destroyed in the other thread and this one is just about done.

[notworthabean]

Quote by: ByaKya Factual? you babbled out this statement. your argument was destroyed in the other thread and this one is just about done.

what argument was destroyed? how is this one done too?

1) this statement (That immigrants frequently cause problems in the new country) is entirely factual based on history.

2) your point was totally illogical.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: notworthabean what argument was destroyed? how is this one done too? 1) this statement (That immigrants frequently cause problems in the new country) is entirely factual based on history. 2) your point was totally illogical.

Which is it? they cause problems SOMETIMES which is understandable, since all humans SOMETIMES cause problems.
Or do they cause problems OFTEN?

if its often, provide links
your children will be eating tacos at baseball games instead of hot dogs soon.

[notworthabean]

Quote by: ByaKya Which is it? they cause problems SOMETIMES which is understandable, since all humans SOMETIMES cause problems. Or do they cause problems OFTEN? if its often, provide links your children will be eating tacos at baseball games instead of hot dogs soon.

1) links to what? I am talking about historically? want to look at various migrant groups which have caused problems for the native inhabitants of the lands

theirs the Huns, the Goths, the Vikings, the Arabs, the Mongols, the settlers/colonists of western Europe. do I need to continue?

2) Who cares what food they eat? as long as the announcer is speaking English and the US flag is flying they can eat hot dogs, pasta, general saos chicken or tacos, although if their like their father they’ll be eating hot dogs, but If my son wants a taco I won’t say “now now son you’re an american go get a hot dog!” I’ll say “watch out for foul balls-your sister is up next”

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Keith Hamburger I'm not even asking about "national identity". The determination is a shear accident of geophysical location at the time of birth, it has nothing really to do with identity. If a person is born on one side of an arbitrary line, they can have a job that will support their family. If they're born on the other side of that line, they're not allowed to. How can this be in any way moral or just? Keith

Then if a person is born into a rich family, those that are poor are entitled to his money by virtue that he got it by the sheer accident of birth?

[ByaKya]

Quote by: notworthabean 1) links to what? I am talking about historically? want to look at various migrant groups which have caused problems for the native inhabitants of the lands theirs the Huns, the Goths, the Vikings, the Arabs, the Mongols, the settlers/colonists of western Europe. do I need to continue? 2) Who cares what food they eat? as long as the announcer is speaking English and the US flag is flying they can eat hot dogs, pasta, general saos chicken or tacos, although if their like their father they’ll be eating hot dogs, but If my son wants a taco I won’t say “now now son you’re an american go get a hot dog!” I’ll say “watch out for foul balls-your sister is up next”

you are comparing armed invasions, all with the accompanying death, destruction, misery and genocide, to people crossing the border to find work?

As i said, your argument is done.
announcers already speak spanish to accomodate the spanish speaking public. its already changing, your children/grandchildren will most likely need to learn spanish to get a job in the southwest to accomodate the spanish speakers, at least successfull companies will want spanish speakers,. the future looks bright indeed

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Zeebadee Then if a person is born into a rich family, those that are poor are entitled to his money by virtue that he got it by the sheer accident of birth?

No, but it would be appreciated if the poor person would be allowed to cross a border and find work.

you dont seem to understand it. why is that? i am 100 % certain you arent rich by any stretch of the imagination, so i dont see your objection to poor people crossing a border to work in hard labor for less than minimum wage.

its always the poor fighting the poor.

[notworthabean]

Quote by: ByaKya you are comparing armed invasions, all with the accompanying death, destruction, misery and genocide, to people crossing the border to find work? As i said, your argument is done. announcers already speak spanish to accomodate the spanish speaking public. its already changing, your children/grandchildren will most likely need to learn spanish to get a job in the southwest to accomodate the spanish speakers, at least successfull companies will want spanish speakers,. the future looks bright indeed

No I am comparing movements of peoples from poor areas to rich areas actually. the only difference is this time the poor people didn't have to invade to get in, they just walked in, however if they ever decide to " protect thier interasts " in a way that the majority finds unsuitable things may indeed go the way of an armed invasaion

where do annoucners speak spanish? and no chances are english will remain the majorty langue, even of the south west, becuase hispanics will still not be the most powerful, those who speak engilsh will be, and this will mean hispanics will learn english and their children will grow up speakking it. in 50 years the only people left speaking spanish will be those still stuck in the ghettos and the grand parents and the new comers, america has an excellent past in assimlating non-englsih speaking immigrants, I am sure the mexicans will be no exception

[ByaKya]

]

Quote by: notworthabean No I am comparing movements of peoples from poor areas to rich areas actually. the only difference is this time the poor people didn't have to invade to get in, they just walked in, however if they ever decide to " protect thier interasts " in a way that the majority finds unsuitable things may indeed go the way of an armed invasaion

Your analogy is lousy. Try again.

where do annoucners speak spanish?

From any baseball game in the southwest, to WWE, ROFL.
Seriously you dont know the extent of US market accomodating spanish speakers? Amazing.

and no chances are english will remain the majorty langue, even of the south west, becuase hispanics will still not be the most powerful, those who speak engilsh will be,

Ahahahahahahahaahaha

Census : decline of whites
Census predicts decline of whites - The Washington Times: Nation/Politics

Whites no longer the majority in California Independent, The (London) - Find Articles
CALIFORNIA NOW has no ethnic majority, according to the state's census returns

and this will mean hispanics will learn english and their children will grow up speakking it. in 50 years the only people left speaking spanish will be those still stuck in the ghettos and the grand parents and the new comers, america has an excellent past in assimlating non-englsih speaking immigrants, I am sure the mexicans will be no exception

[/QUOTE]

Ahahahahahahaha

Bilingual employees in demand

Bilingual employees in demand across Del.

According to my link, in 50 years, whites wont be in a position to "assimilate" anything, let alone assimilate blacks that havent shown any interest in integration nor hispanics who by that time would have solidifed their position of power in the country and able to protect themselves and vote people into office that will look out for them. God bless democracy
PWNT!

Viva La Raza !

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: ByaKya No, but it would be appreciated if the poor person would be allowed to cross a border and find work. you dont seem to understand it. why is that? i am 100 % certain you arent rich by any stretch of the imagination, so i dont see your objection to poor people crossing a border to work in hard labor for less than minimum wage. its always the poor fighting the poor.

It's not just a question of "poor people crossing a border to work in hard labor for less than minimum wage". The problem is that the wages paid to these poor aren't enough to allow them to live in California without being subsidized by the taxpayers. Here's a couple of examples:

Schools here are funded mainly by property taxes. Poor people don't own much property in this state, because it's pretty high priced. Yet their kids go to school free and the taxpayers foot the bill.

Poor people can't afford medical insurance. They simply aren't paid enough to be able to pay for it. So they go down to the local emergency room whenever they need to and get "free" medical care. Only no one works for free, even doctors, and medicine still costs money, so the local hospitals have to make up that money from somewhere. The answer? Nail the insurance policies of those patients that have coverage for the difference. Only the insurance companies aren't in business to lose money so they pass those costs along to their customers. I have to have medical insurance because a single emergency can now cost enough to break the average person. I could lose my house and everything overnight if I didn't have coverage. So now I am paying premiums that have to cover my own costs plus all those that are getting treated at the emergency room for free. It's the same with car insurance. Those with insurance are having to pay for all those without it.

The benefactors of theses taxpayer subsidies are, of course, the people and companies that hire these low-paid workers. And the more people that they can attract will only continue to drive down the wages they have to pay.

Living costs in California are high. You couldn't expect to live at the Waldorf-Astoria and have the other guests pay your bill, could you? Why do some people believe that California should be different?

[notworthabean]

you have over 1000 posts and still cannot work the quote feature. amazing.

Your analogy is lousy. Try again.

nope, its perfectly apt. just because you fail to understand it does not change anything.

From any baseball game in the southwest, to WWE, ROFL. Seriously you dont know the extent of US market accomodating spanish speakers? Amazing.

seeing as I live in the north east and don't watch WWE I guess i am just missing out on all that English/Spanish announcing done. However I would bet it will remain mostly done in English for the future.

Ahahahahahahahaahaha Census : decline of whites Census predicts decline of whites - The Washington Times: Nation/Politics Whites no longer the majority in California Independent, The (London) - Find Articles CALIFORNIA NOW has no ethnic majority, according to the state's census returns

Whites aren't the only people who speak English, but thanks for telling me something I already know.

Ahahahahahahaha Bilingual employees in demand Bilingual employees in demand across Del.

what your article says is that being able to speak Spanish is a plus. well no shit Sherlock, we have an immigrant population which is not fully integrated, plus millions south of the border who speak English either poorly or not at all. Naturally some sales/customer service people will be bi-lingual. if you speak Chinese its also helpful, same with Arabic. speaking two languages is very helpful.

but see your "pwnt" by your own article.

Quote by: all from article English skills are a must "One of the keys to success in U.S. society is getting English skills," Fry said. "There's no doubt English is valuable, but it's an open question still how valuable Spanish is from the labor market perspective." Although English remains the language of economic advantage

this does not mean in order to work in the south west you need to be fluent in Spanish, it means that being able to speak Spanish may be helpful in certain areas, but English is a must.

as you would say "pwnt"

[Apokalupsis]

Quote by: Keith Hamburger Nations and governments have no rights. People, individuals, have rights. Governments have powers. The principle that this country was founded upon was that the government only has limited powers granted by the Constitution. Powers derived from the rights and powers of the individual.

Yes, more accurately, government has the power to do so (vs right). However, when it can be shown that a nation can survive without a governing nation that exercises such power, then and only then will libertarianism have merit. Until then, it's paper theory.

What nation in the history of the world has been successful by practice of libertarianism? None.

[Autolykos]

How do you define "national success", Apokalupsis?

- Rob

[Apokalupsis]

A successful nation has many characteristics of course. But the most general, and the first step, is merely existence.

What nations in the history of the world have ever even practiced libertarianism? Let's start there.

[Gods_Mercenary]

I wonder how a weak libertarian government would defend its citezens from strong imperialist ones?

[Apokalupsis]

Magically, all the people would come together to defend themselves.

That's what libertarianism is...magic. Looks and sounds pretty, but everyone knows it isn't reality. It doesn't work in the real world.

[notworthabean]

I think a moderately libertarian society, ie one where the government restricts its influence on day to day life) would make a country better, but a truly ideal libertarian country would be a disaster.

According to my link, in 50 years, whites wont be in a position to "assimilate" anything, let alone assimilate blacks that havent shown any interest in integration

blacks have long been integrated into American society so I don't know what you mean. and African immigrants are very integration oriented too (as are Asians and indeed most Hispanics)

nor hispanics who by that time would have solidifed their position of power in the country and able to protect themselves and vote people into office that will look out for them. God bless democracy

Hispanics will be like the Irish for a little while(ie a voting bloc) as were most ethnic groups, and assimilate similarly. some Spanish words will seep into English (perhaps like orson scott card imagines in enders game) but English (or the new form of it) will still be the dominaitn language.

Viva La Raza !

now I have to ask, you have an African sounding handle, a Japanese anime reference in your title and then say "viva la raza" so out of curiosity what ethnic group do you belong to?

[rmnunez]

On Mexican TV they have a documentary and debate on this and estimate there are about 25 million Mexicans in the US, about 10 million of them undocumenteds and the balance are either born there, are lawful residents or have acquired citizenship in that country.

The US Census reports a 1.8 birth rate for "Whites" (less than "replacement level") while the "Hispanic" rate is about 2.5. Hispanics will be more numerous than Whites in the US by 2010.

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: rmnunez On Mexican TV they have a documentary and debate on this and estimate there are about 25 million Mexicans in the US, about 10 million of them undocumenteds and the balance are either born there, are lawful residents or have acquired citizenship in that country. The US Census reports a 1.8 birth rate for "Whites" (less than "replacement level") while the "Hispanic" rate is about 2.5. Hispanics will be more numerous than Whites in the US by 2010.

Well, I'm going to contribute to that by moving to Mexico. I've already figured out where I'm going, now I've just got to sell some property in Colorado so I can buy something in Mexico.

Hasta la vista, baby.

Keith