"myths And Half-truths About Illegal Immigration"

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: rmnunez The property ownership thing is completely different, reciprocity doesn't apply because Mexico has suffered serious fraud in land transactions with united statians as big chunks of Mexico were purportedly sold before. This is the explanation for the constitutional preclusion of foreign property ownership along Mexico's boundaries (coasts and borders). The problem is overcome through the device of a trust to administer an estate, and property can be described as shares to be conveyed regardless of nationality.

I understand the mechanisms in place. I'm planning on taking advantage of them, myself, and to live along the Yucatan coast.

My main point was there is more than enough room for give and take in this but that has largely been ignored. The US is making demands to reduce cross-border activities by the Mexicans, and the Mexican government is making demands to increase and ease such activities.

There are hundreds of little things in between that could be negotiated, however, on a positive basis on both sides. That's called diplomacy, of which there has been very little exhibited by either side in this matter.

Keith

[rmnunez]

I'd dispute the claim there isn't enough diplomacy, Mexico and the US have very intense and substantive negotiations all the time between their respective governmental institutions on all sorts of things relating to the border.

They've reached all sorts of complicated tax and customs arrangements for the maquiladoras, just recently they agreed to extradite a bunch of top figures in Mexican drug cartels, before that they made arrangements so Mexican truckers could deliver to united statian clients across the border, earlier they settled on procedures so Mexicans could vote by mail. The problem is intransigence, the united statians hold to the line their immigration procedures are fine and its just compliance that is needed. My view is that the procedures are too cumbersome, time consuming and expensive, they can't be complied with to the same effect.

[Century 25]

rmnunez said: "You mean an "illegal loan"?

Yes.. same as an illegal alien.. Proximity does not = permission.. in either case. Try sneaking into Australia.. or France.. etc..

I won't get into the issues that arise with illegal entry.. the term itself can range from burglary to rape.. etc.. Illegal entry.. 3rd world diseases are making a comeback here.. we have no clear picture of the depth of the invasion taking place here..

[minguita]

What I think is that this country has plenty of jobs for everybody.... i just think that if people think that illegal workers are taking away jobs for U.S. citizens is not truth ... they may be taking the dirty jobs ... but the good jobs no .... could it be that the average american does not like to study much so they rather work in those tipy of jobs and blame the illegals for taking those spaces?

[Zeebadee]

Typical American short-sightedness. Pick a class of people, illegal immigrants, exploit them and reap the economic rewards. Never mind that this can go on for at most a generation or two. After that, the kids of these illegals, beneficiaries of American taxpayer provided free medical care and free schooling are going to be looking for real jobs, if there are any left after bush. We are paying the way for the very people that we will be expected to compete with for the few decent jobs that bush's policies will leave us! It really doesn't matter, our system is headed for economic collapse, either via Tytler (Alexander Fraser Tytler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) or via Tainter (Joseph Tainter) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The primary goal of our political "leaders" is to get new meat into the system, to prolong that inevitable collapse. Every Ponzi scheme needs to continually add new participants to stave off collapse. Get these people into the system, sign them up for social security, and rob them, just like they've done to the rest of us for years now.

[rmnunez]

The "Ponzi Scheme" element arises over demographic trends, its not the product of some plot to exploit anyone. The post-WW2 baby boom peaked, they generated enough wealth, the economy grew, but they are retiring and didn't have enough kids to cover their own vacancies. With advances in science we have a longer life expectancy post retirement and with inflation we need more funds to maintain these retiring baby boomers as modern medicine extends their lives. By legalizing the undocumenteds, if they can be fiscalized, the retiring united statians can secure contributors to their pension fund.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: rmnunez The "Ponzi Scheme" element arises over demographic trends, its not the product of some plot to exploit anyone.

It's exactly the product of a plot to exploit American taxpayers. They've stolen money from us for many years now, under the claim that we wouldn't save enough to take care of ourselves in our old age. They were going to save it for us, and return it with interest. Instead, our "leaders" stole the money and spent it to buy themselves votes to stay in their cushy jobs. Now with a deadline approaching (the baby-boomer retirements) that will make it difficult to continue the charade, they desperately need new meat to provide the money to keep the Ponzi game going. The result?? Immigration "reform" (read - no restrictions whatever) to get that new meat signed up and contributing.

Quote by: rmnunez The post-WW2 baby boom peaked, they generated enough wealth, the economy grew, but they are retiring and didn't have enough kids to cover their own vacancies.

It's not really a question of "vacancies", it's a question of how they are to be given their own money back, as promised by our "public servants" (one of the most laughable descriptions I have ever heard).

Quote by: rmnunez With advances in science we have a longer life expectancy post retirement and with inflation we need more funds to maintain these retiring baby boomers as modern medicine extends their lives.

Under the initial objectives of the system, and proper fiscal controls, there would be no problem meeting the goals on Social Security. It's only because of the theft of resources and the expansion of benefits to "buy" votes that the system has degenerated to what it is today. [/quote]

Quote by: rmnunez By legalizing the undocumenteds, if they can be fiscalized, the retiring united statians can secure contributors to their pension fund.

Good, in the immortal words of our present "leader", "bring 'em on". I hereby drop all my objections to immigration control and look forward to a future of SS payments financed by those poor suckers making less than minimum wage. I wish them luck, they're gonna need it.

[Century 25]

Quote by: rmnunez The "Ponzi Scheme" element arises over demographic trends, its not the product of some plot to exploit anyone. The post-WW2 baby boom peaked, they generated enough wealth, the economy grew, but they are retiring and didn't have enough kids to cover their own vacancies. With advances in science we have a longer life expectancy post retirement and with inflation we need more funds to maintain these retiring baby boomers as modern medicine extends their lives. By legalizing the undocumenteds, if they can be fiscalized, the retiring united statians can secure contributors to their pension fund.

You think..?? This country has a record from it's beginnings of exploitation of cheap (or slave) labor.. We (this country) used slaves from Africa.. they kidnapped them.. and when "slavery" was abolished.. (sure thing) they used Chinese (coolie labor).. and then.. children.. and now we have the poor illegal alien Mexicans..

And.. let us not forget that capitalism.. the oldest of pyramid schemes.. requires an ever expanding "base" from which the tip is fed it's $$$..

Eventually.. and not too far into the future.. we too will be as Mexico is.. a two-class culture.. the filthy rich.. and.. the filthy..

Ha ha.. pension funds..?? What a laugh..

[rmnunez]

I see two issues conflated; the problem with Social Security benefits not covering former workers due whatever mismanagement has taken place, and the problem from a low birth rate and a growing economy which results in more jobs than people able to hold them.

Social security may last a bit longer thanks to the enrollment of immigrants and their contributions to the system, but regardless of this, the immigrants are needed to fill the positions. If its true 77 million united statians will retire between 2000 and 2010, where are their successors coming from? If the birth rate in the US has fallen below replacement level, this means there simply will not be enough people. If we consider how the economy has also grown, its obvious the US will need to allow more immigrants in unless they want to stall and shrink their economy.

[Century 25]

If we consider how the economy has also grown, its obvious the US will need to allow more immigrants in unless they want to stall and shrink their economy.

That is the requirement of a capitalistic economy without checks & balances.. The voracious appetite of greed must be fed by an ever expanding base.. so that the many can sate the few.. Our quality of life is declining..

Life is about quality.. not quantity.. to what purpose must we grow.. and never stop..?? We have more than 300,000,000 people now.. will growig to 400,000,000 make our lives better..?? How about 500,000,000.. or a billion..??

[rmnunez]

Businesses grow because they are successful. If you open a shop and sales are good, you make a profit. In most cases, making the store bigger, and opening more of them will yield more profits. Not many successful business owners are satisfied with the profits they make and usually they want to enhance the benefits from their business expanding operations and improving their sales.

In the US the economy is growing and has been for a long time, but the population isn't keeping pace. Now a large proportion of the workers needed in a variety of sectors, have to be foreigners because there aren't enough locals. The US could seal its borders and limit economic growth, but a great deal of this depends on competitiveness which is enhanced by that growth.