Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

GHook93 · Jan 9, 2007, 10:00 am

Is Hawaii Really a State of the Union?

Hawaii became the 50th state of the Union in 1959 after a vote by the people "living" in Hawaii.

What was on the ballot? --> To become a state or to remain a US territory! no 3rd option of becoming a free independent nation.

Quote:

Shall Hawaii immediately be admitted into the Union as a state?"
Yes or No? Become a state, or remain a territory?

Who voted? --> Here is the catch? US citizens voted!

Quote:

Any U.S. citizen who had resided in the islands for a year was allowed to vote, which included large numbers of American military servicemen and their families, who were essentially the occupation force that had illegally held Hawaii since the admittedly unlawful annexation in 1898

Therefore didn't every American displace a native Hawaiian and unlawfully take their property, such as PatrickHenry did? Is his views on the Palestinian and Israel, exactly what he did metaphorically to the Hawaiians?

Food for thought! We all seen the pictures he is as white as day.

brien · Jan 9, 2007, 11:35 am

Is this a beef with PH or is it a thread regarding the legitimate inclusion of Hawaii into the Union? Because if it is a question of the inlcusion of Hawaii as the 50th state, it is probably pointless. The US will never now cede Hawaii back to the natives due to its military strategic importance to the defense of the mainland. You can argue the strategic importance is now obsolete but it is rather like a tax; once it is imposed, it is hardly ever repealed.

GHook93 · Jan 9, 2007, 12:54 pm

Quote:

Quote by: brien

Is this a beef with PH or is it a thread regarding the legitimate inclusion of Hawaii into the Union? Because if it is a question of the inlcusion of Hawaii as the 50th state, it is probably pointless. The US will never now cede Hawaii back to the natives due to its military strategic importance to the defense of the mainland. You can argue the strategic importance is now obsolete but it is rather like a tax; once it is imposed, it is hardly ever repealed.

Both!

Hawaii's situation is very interesting. So many people argue for a certain peoples claim to lands, but they rarely mention Hawaii. Unlike the Palestinians, Hawaii had a government and ruled the lands prior to America taking it over.

The beef with PH is that he is one of the biggest advocators for the Palestinians on volconvo and hatred for the Israelis (and self-hatred for America); however, he is directly doing exactly what he "claims" the Israelis are doing.

brien · Jan 9, 2007, 12:58 pm

How does being an advocate for Palestinians translate into hatred for Israel? Is not a homeland for the Palestinians fair and equitable?

GHook93 · Jan 9, 2007, 01:20 pm

Quote:

Quote by: brien

How does being an advocate for Palestinians translate into hatred for Israel? Is not a homeland for the Palestinians fair and equitable?

In some cases it doesn't (as my view that they should have their own country mirroring the pre-1967 borders), but in other cases they are linked (aka PH's views).

To the 2nd questions: Without a doubt! Both deserve a homeland in the areas and to live in peace (this is my dream).

Autolykos · Jan 9, 2007, 02:49 pm

I would have no problem with Hawai'i becoming an independent country.

To be fair to Patrick (and may he correct me, lest I'm wrong), he came to Hawai'i long after the question of its statehood had been settled, however (il)legitimately. As a result, I do not see how he personally bears responsibility for stealing the islands from their native inhabitants.

- Rob

The Decider · Jan 9, 2007, 02:58 pm

GHook, in fairness to PatrickHenry, please quote his comments that inspired this thread. Otherwise, this is just a private conversation between you two.

PatrickHenry · Jan 9, 2007, 04:06 pm

This is no private conversation. GHook is obviously unaware, due to his limited views and inability to search for my posts, but I have broached this topic numerous times on this forum.

I am happy to see that GHook supports the cause of national self-determination, as do I.

Hawaii was a separate nation with a constitutional monarchy and treaties of friendship with the US and other world powers. It was overthrown by traitors to the legitimate government of Hawaii, in collusion with the US minister, who ordered a landing by 162 Marines in 1893. These troops leveled their weapons at the Queen and assisted in the overthrow of her legitimate government.

The Administration of President Cleveland determined this to be true and sought the return of legitimate government to Hawaii. Instead, after a five year interlude as a false republic, with an unelected "President" Sanford Dole, the kingdom was taken as a territory of the United States.

As GHook said, those who voted in the 'plebiscite' were not all the indigenous residents, but immigrants from the colonizing power. In 1959, I was a 9-year old boy, living in Texas, and had nothing to do with the sham making Hawaii a US state. I have become aware of these unjust events since emigrating to Hawaii approximately 19 years ago.

There certainly is a case for restoring Hawaiian sovereignty.

GHook93 · Jan 9, 2007, 04:54 pm

Quote:

Quote by: PatrickHenry

I have become aware of these unjust events since emigrating to Hawaii approximately 19 years ago.

There certainly is a case for restoring Hawaiian sovereignty.

Your very presence in Hawaii is exactly what you claim Israelis (European/Russia Jews) did to the Palestinians! You might not have voted in the statehood election, but you are contributing to the taking of Native Hawaiian homes.

The Decider · Jan 9, 2007, 05:59 pm

Quote:

Quote by: GHook93

Your very presence in Hawaii is exactly what you claim Israelis (European/Russia Jews) did to the Palestinians! You might not have voted in the statehood election, but you are contributing to the taking of Native Hawaiian homes.

GHook, PH has admitted that the Hawaiians have a case for sovereignty over the land he calls home (the Big Island). Do the Israelis admit the same about Israel proper?

PatrickHenry · Jan 9, 2007, 06:26 pm

Furthermore, I would find it most pleasant to pledge allegiance to an independent Hawaiian government, leaving behind the tyranny advancing through the United States of America.

And there is no violence at this time supressing Hawaiian rights, no imprisonment without trial, no demolitions of homes, no sanctioned murders of Hawaiian sovereignty leaders.

I suggest you find a new cause in your vendetta against me, GHook. This one won't fly.

**Jack** · Jan 9, 2007, 06:42 pm

GHook93, it's a shame you couldn't approach this as a debate topic without having to include a personal insult toward PatrickHenry in the topic title. Perhaps you should ask to have the title shortened to something without a personal reference in it, and then actually debate the subject without taking cheap shots at other members. So far this topic reads like a lengthy personal attack.

<Title changed sans request>

Jan 9, 2007, 11:35 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
brien Iceberg Location: Connecticut Posts: 5,691	Is this a beef with PH or is it a thread regarding the legitimate inclusion of Hawaii into the Union? Because if it is a question of the inlcusion of Hawaii as the 50th state, it is probably pointless. The US will never now cede Hawaii back to the natives due to its military strategic importance to the defense of the mainland. You can argue the strategic importance is now obsolete but it is rather like a tax; once it is imposed, it is hardly ever repealed. Brien the Iceberg If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything. M.T.

Jan 9, 2007, 12:58 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
brien Iceberg Location: Connecticut Posts: 5,691	How does being an advocate for Palestinians translate into hatred for Israel? Is not a homeland for the Palestinians fair and equitable? Brien the Iceberg If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything. M.T.

Jan 9, 2007, 02:49 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Autolykos Logical Phallussy Location: In your internets. Posts: 2,991	I would have no problem with Hawai'i becoming an independent country. To be fair to Patrick (and may he correct me, lest I'm wrong), he came to Hawai'i long after the question of its statehood had been settled, however (il)legitimately. As a result, I do not see how he personally bears responsibility for stealing the islands from their native inhabitants. - Rob "I'd rather be free and alive!" -- Ron Paul Religion isn't the greatest threat to mankind -- authoritarianism is. The Anarcheion Zeitgeist

Jan 9, 2007, 04:06 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,437	This is no private conversation. GHook is obviously unaware, due to his limited views and inability to search for my posts, but I have broached this topic numerous times on this forum. I am happy to see that GHook supports the cause of national self-determination, as do I. Hawaii was a separate nation with a constitutional monarchy and treaties of friendship with the US and other world powers. It was overthrown by traitors to the legitimate government of Hawaii, in collusion with the US minister, who ordered a landing by 162 Marines in 1893. These troops leveled their weapons at the Queen and assisted in the overthrow of her legitimate government. The Administration of President Cleveland determined this to be true and sought the return of legitimate government to Hawaii. Instead, after a five year interlude as a false republic, with an unelected "President" Sanford Dole, the kingdom was taken as a territory of the United States. As GHook said, those who voted in the 'plebiscite' were not all the indigenous residents, but immigrants from the colonizing power. In 1959, I was a 9-year old boy, living in Texas, and had nothing to do with the sham making Hawaii a US state. I have become aware of these unjust events since emigrating to Hawaii approximately 19 years ago. There certainly is a case for restoring Hawaiian sovereignty. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Jan 9, 2007, 06:26 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,437	Furthermore, I would find it most pleasant to pledge allegiance to an independent Hawaiian government, leaving behind the tyranny advancing through the United States of America. And there is no violence at this time supressing Hawaiian rights, no imprisonment without trial, no demolitions of homes, no sanctioned murders of Hawaiian sovereignty leaders. I suggest you find a new cause in your vendetta against me, GHook. This one won't fly. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Jan 9, 2007, 02:58 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
The Decider Hot Lava Posts: 1,660	GHook, in fairness to PatrickHenry, please quote his comments that inspired this thread. Otherwise, this is just a private conversation between you two.

Jan 9, 2007, 06:42 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,010	GHook93, it's a shame you couldn't approach this as a debate topic without having to include a personal insult toward PatrickHenry in the topic title. Perhaps you should ask to have the title shortened to something without a personal reference in it, and then actually debate the subject without taking cheap shots at other members. So far this topic reads like a lengthy personal attack. <Title changed sans request> The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant) Last edited by Jack; Jan 9, 2007 at 08:58 pm.