Justice in Iraq

[Technosoul]

As you know Saddam was hanged for crimes that the White House claimed he was involved in, after being found guilty as charged.

This is just a poll, as an American (or anyone else) do you feel justice was done, fair trial or not?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Technosoul As you know Saddam was hanged for crimes that the White House claimed he was involved in, after being found guilty as charged. This is just a poll, as an American (or anyone else) do you feel justice was done, fair trial or not?

My problem isn't that Saddam's hung for being a killer. It's that his killers are themselves guilty of far worse and they get covered in glory.

And I think his execution for the case he was found guilty of... has resulted in his being unavailable to testify about other crimes he did with assistance of the Washington SuitMonsters.

[Chaossaber314]

Saddam is a murderer and got what was coming to him even if the trial was a farce.

Side story: My brother was being a dumbass one day and was in a junkyard smashing the windows of broken down cars with his friends. The cops got called and he and his friends got arrested. While they were booking him he started talking shit and pissed off one of the officers enough that he just up and tasered him to shut him up.

They never ended up being charged (even though he was 18) since they agreed to pay the owners of the junk yard back but still since that time he's bitched about how his rights were violated. I can only shake my head at him and say "Dude. You were guilty."

[Praxius]

Chances are, even if he did have a fair trial, he would have been guilty anyways, but at least they could have made it better then the witch hunt we all saw.

[Right of Center]

Quote by: PatrickHenry My problem isn't that Saddam's hung for being a killer. It's that his killers are themselves guilty of far worse and they get covered in glory.

The society of Iraq killed him. Not specific individuals. What kind of guilt are you talking about here PatrickHenry. Do you have a link or at least more information about his "killers" crimes?

[Paleface2500]

This place is overflowing with left wing liberals………. I am disgusted

[Cephus]

Quote by: Praxius Chances are, even if he did have a fair trial, he would have been guilty anyways, but at least they could have made it better then the witch hunt we all saw.

He was undeniably guilty, he didn't even deny it himself. He did, without question, murder thousands. Of course, the trial was a farce, the outcome was predetermined and I'm sure the Bush administration had a hand in it. I'm almost surprised Bush didn't demand to hang him himself.

[Technosoul]

Some voted that the trial did not represent justice.
Some voted that justice was not important as long as they got him hung.
One voter acturally believed the tiral was fair and just. (does not know the difference apparently).
One honest voter said he did not see the trial on TV (or elsewhere) and so did not know for sure.

So a total of 10 people here agreed that the trial was unjust or that justice is not important (that is to say, fairness is not important as long as you get your mod hanging). Southern Justice as we once called it.

President Bush's dream was to make the new Irag a shinning example of Democarcy and freedom, as a role model for other Islamic nations to look up too and to follow. A good old KKK hanging judge was all he needed to "bring the bad boys to justice" I guess.

What? I am being a whining liberial? I wonder just what the hell is "right wing democarcy" anyhow? "Whiskey for my men and beer for my horse'.

If the White House is quite about that trial which took place in the newly liberated "democratic" Irag then (if the Republicans can continue full steam ahead) we can expect the same kind of justice here in the USA.

How would you like this new plan for justice in America?

1. Blame someone.
2. Assign a hanging judge.
3. Kill off any lawyers who come to the defense of the person on trial.
4. Prevent reporters from watching.
5. Go through some mock procedings.
6. Then hang the person before they can seek a re-trial.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Paleface2500 This place is overflowing with left wing liberals………. I am disgusted

Well if that's the case, balance it out and stick your opinion out there, rather then complain.

[pikatore]

Quote by: Paleface2500 This place is overflowing with left wing liberals………. I am disgusted

What? Did you just eat something that didn't taste very good... say... a valid argument?

[rez]

Quote by: Technosoul As you know Saddam was hanged for crimes that the White House claimed he was involved in, after being found guilty as charged. This is just a poll, as an American (or anyone else) do you feel justice was done, fair trial or not?

I see no justice when monkeys kill monkeys

[brien]

Does it matter if he got a fair trial when he played in the international arena of scoundrels? When one lives by the sword, they usually die by the sword, unless they insulate themselves from those whom are more powerful than themselves. Saddam got what he played for while he was in power and he eventually paid the price for it. He apparently knew and expected it. Who gets a fair trial?

[Praxius]

And in other News:

Saddam's daughter cries foul over father's death

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Technosoul So a total of 10 people here agreed that the trial was unjust or that justice is not important (that is to say, fairness is not important as long as you get your mod hanging). Southern Justice as we once called it.

At least you don't hide your bias.

Saying that those that the 6 don't care about Justice is absurd.

President Bush's dream was to make the new Irag a shinning example of Democarcy and freedom, as a role model for other Islamic nations to look up too and to follow. A good old KKK hanging judge was all he needed to "bring the bad boys to justice" I guess.

I suggest you read up lynchings and Southern Justice because quite often those people weren't even given sham trials and were executed before all the facts were even known. This is just a red herring to bring thoughts of contempt for racists up which has nothing to do with this issue. If this wasn't the goal, why use Southern Justice at all? Why not simply say vigilantism?

If the White House is quite about that trial which took place in the newly liberated "democratic" Irag then (if the Republicans can continue full steam ahead) we can expect the same kind of justice here in the USA.

Really? You have some evidence to support a total reform of our courts?

[brien]

I suggest you read up lynchings and Southern Justice because quite often those people weren't even given shame trials and were executed before all the facts were even known

Is this what happend to Saddam? I see it as he was more a player in the corrupt and violent politics of power and ended up as many often do in that lifestyle. I think he was aware of of it and even expected it.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: brien Is this what happend to Saddam? I see it as he was more a player in the corrupt and violent politics of power and ended up as many often do in that lifestyle. I think he was aware of of it and even expected it.

I don't believe that is what happened with Saddam. My argument was that this could not be compared to the concept of Southern Justice.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 At least you don't hide your bias. Saying that those that the 6 don't care about Justice is absurd. I suggest you read up lynchings and Southern Justice because quite often those people weren't even given sham trials and were executed before all the facts were even known. This is just a red herring to bring thoughts of contempt for racists up which has nothing to do with this issue. If this wasn't the goal, why use Southern Justice at all? Why not simply say vigilantism? Really? You have some evidence to support a total reform of our courts?

Those who voted that the trial was unfair might indeed favor a good justice system. I did not intend to suggest the voters here do not want justice to be done, but was laying a foundation that because they saw it as unfair for Saddam that our President should have protested the way the trail was conducted instead of all our leaders (on both sides of the asile) being silent and saying nothing. They just looked the other way as if it was "out of our hands" when in fact the trial was clearly "programed" by USA representitives to make sure he was found guilty as charged.

Under the law (in Iraq) no standing President can be charged with any crime and Saddam was not correctly voted out of office in a democratic manner. He was still President according to his defense lawyers (who were killed). His government was overthrown by outside forces. He was not impeached in a poltical manner.

The judge discounted his defense opinon by telling him "You are not now the President, you are a private citizen".

It matches Southern Justice because it was.

1 - an act of discrimination ( a hate crime because Bush and others hated him).

2 - Because many black people had court room trials and were found guilty simply because an all white jury did not give a hoot about real justice ( like they would if the defendant was a white person). Not all the blacks that were hanged to death (unjustly) were done so without trials.

3 - I was not advocating a reform of our courts here in the USA but for sure it needs to be done in Irag. Along with a reform of Bush policy before we no longer have any rights in our own courts. As well as a reform in the attitudes of people here who voted "who cares?".

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Technosoul 1 - an act of discrimination ( a hate crime because Bush and others hated him).

That's preposterous. Under this definition every violent crime is a hate crime. It has to be motivated toward a group. Saddam Hussein constitutes and individual and clearly not a group.

Look up discrimination as well because you clearly don't know the definition.

2 - Because many black people had court room trials and were found guilty simply because an all white jury did not give a hoot about real justice ( like they would if the defendant was a white person). Not all the blacks that were hanged to death (unjustly) were done so without trials.

Show this was based on race or ethnic group. Southern Justice has the explicit connotation of being associated with racism since it's not seen in relation to other groups as would be termed if this was vigilantism.

Quote by: Technosoul 3 - I was not advocating a reform of our courts here in the USA but for sure it needs to be done in Irag. Along with a reform of Bush policy before we no longer have any rights in our own courts. As well as a reform in the attitudes of people here who voted "who cares?".

Quote by: Slight alteration Really? You have some evidence to support that Bush is attempting a total reform of our courts?

[Technosoul]

You forgot about that "Deck of Cards" where they had a lot of people listed as targets that were part of Saddam's group. Once the shock and awe was over our government fired many of the people who belonged to the religious sect that Saddam belonged too. They fired school teachers, policemen, and lots of other people in Irag from their work places in a sweeping act of discrimination. A bloc of people became unemployed overnight.

They filled up the jails and tortured many people of that Sect because they were part of Saddam's "group". AKA - polticial and religious discrimination.
Rather then discrimination based on race.

Saddam was not the "one and only person" effected. We bombed resturants full of people because we got a tip that his brother was eating there. We did not send in a sniper to kill just Saddam alone - we sent in hundreds of jets and bombers. Where did you get that idea that Saddam was the only one that Bush wanted exterminated?

You asked for evidence that supports the suggestion that Bush would like to change our justice system. All you need to do is read some of the topics here at Volconvo to find out the answer. All the new bills he is signing like the one about opening the mail, the new "Homeland Security" laws that allow them to hold people forever without access to lawyers or "justice".
He wanted to change the consitution so courts can rule that gay marrages are unlawful. His positition on Stem Cell research and his appointments of anti-abortion judges to the Supreme Court. All his "Big Brother" wishes (some of which came true) that he advocated. Evidence? Are you that much in the dark?