Left-Wing Revolution and the Middle Class

[The Sexorcist]

Does/can the middle class be brought to the side of working class revolution? Can they be convinced to support socialist revolution and actively build such a movement? Are they an important part of mass uprising, or merely a quasi-capitalist class with vested interests in maintaining the status quo?

Annnnnnnd...discuss.

[Jack]

Judging by their past behavior in recent elections and their religious beliefs, I think it would be a monumental task to motivate them to go against the status quo.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: The Sexorcist Does/can the middle class be brought to the side of working class revolution? Can they be convinced to support socialist revolution and actively build such a movement? Are they an important part of mass uprising, or merely a quasi-capitalist class with vested interests in maintaining the status quo? Annnnnnnd...discuss.

Sure, seeing as most of the socialist revolutionaries in the West are comfortable middle class kids with posters of Che on the wall. Getting the working class on your side, now that is the difficult thing.

[Osborn F Enready]

The socialist following in the U.S. has been growing strong since 1933, and the New Deal, which brought many of its "points/planks" to our capitalist nation.

I think those planks failure, should speak for themselves if people are intelligent enough to understand economics, the affect on power structure, and the loss of rights that is occuring in direct relation to the introduction of these planks.

Socialism, in my beyond lower ,than lower class earning position, is a fools folly toward social utopia, ignoring the realities of labor, values, and human nature.

Yes, its possible.... but the effects would be devastating to liberty, individualism, and humankind, and would end up shortlived because of it.

Once the effects of socialism were evident, after the mechanisms put in place, revolt, rebellion and unrest would ensue. People only dream of socialism when they aren't doing well in capitalism, but once socialism is realized, they miss the concept of capitalism, the life it provides, and the innovation that has driven this world to the point of technology that it is today.
Once liberty is removed from the individual, failure is right around the corner.

That is my opinion.

[Paleface2500]

People are sheep and will believe/follow what every body else tells them to believe/follow. Hardly anyone will go figure things out for themselves anymore. That’s just my .02 cents

[Rainbow]

Quote by: The Sexorcist Left-Wing Revolution and the Middle Class Does/can the middle class be brought to the side of working class revolution? Can they be convinced to support socialist revolution and actively build such a movement? Are they an important part of mass uprising, or merely a quasi-capitalist class with vested interests in maintaining the status quo?

Left-Wing ?
Do you mean Chavez and/or alike ?

[brien]

Can you define middle class?

If you are asking will the majority of Americans ever embrace Socialism, I think probably, to a certain extent, they already have in America. It has merely arrived in different clothing but it has yet to be validated by the electorate.

For example, consider the size of the government. Consider the cost of the government. Most of the budget goes to entitlements. Also consider:

AMTRAK
US Postal Service
Social Security
Chrysler Bailout.
The growing trend of Universal Health Care
Medicare
Medicaid
Subsidized mass transit

The nose of the camel is in the tent and it won't be long before the average American is out of the tent and the entire Camel is in his tent.

I suppose I could go on but I hope I have made my point.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: brien Can you define middle class? If you are asking will the majority of Americans ever embrace Socialism, I think probably, to a certain extent, they already have in America. It has merely arrived in different clothing but it has yet to be validated by the electorate. For example, consider the size of the government. Consider the cost of the government. Most of the budget goes to entitlements. Also consider: AMTRAK US Postal Service Social Security Chrysler Bailout. The growing trend of Universal Health Care Medicare Medicaid Subsidized mass transit The nose of the camel is in the tent and it won't be long before the average American is out of the tent and the entire Camel is in his tent. I suppose I could go on but I hope I have made my point.

Also consider that various levels of government have shares within a number of corporations. I'll have to check but I think 40% of Ford is owned by seperate government institutions. When that much of your stock is owned by the state, how far are you truely from nationalisation?

[Rainbow]

Quote by: G. Adams Also consider that various levels of government have shares within a number of corporations. I'll have to check but I think 40% of Ford is owned by seperate government institutions. When that much of your stock is owned by the state, how far are you truely from nationalisation?

I think it may be taken as a form of protectionism.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: brien The nose of the camel is in the tent and it won't be long before the average American is out of the tent and the entire Camel is in his tent.

Why being so pessimistic ?
I think it is technically impossible "the Camel" to become the only tenant :-)

[Osborn F Enready]

Rainbow said: I think it is technically impossible "the Camel" to become the only tenant.

You would be wrong. The camel is the only tenant with a VOICE in that scenario. The people merely serve as worker bees to maintain the queen bee, in this case, the camel.

Its called economic and social slavery.

[brien]

Quote by: Rainbow Why being so pessimistic ? I think it is technically impossible "the Camel" to become the only tenant :-)

Why being so pessimistic ?

Because of the amount of taxes I pay every day, month and year.

[Zhavric]

What revolution?

[Rainbow]

Quote by: brien Because of the amount of taxes I pay every day, month and year.

I understand your view, but you are not the only one.
I pay taxes as well. Do you think I like it ?

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready You would be wrong. The camel is the only tenant with a VOICE in that scenario. The people merely serve as worker bees to maintain the queen bee, in this case, the camel. Its called economic and social slavery.

:-)))

Can you present your concept for sharing that "tent" ?

[brien]

Quote by: Rainbow I understand your view, but you are not the only one. I pay taxes as well. Do you think I like it ?

There are many people in this US that do not pay income taxes. They don't earn enough money, yet there is a segment of this contingency that continually votes for larger government that they don't have to fund. It is rather like unfunded mandates.

I undestand I am not the only one who pays taxes. If it were up to me, this government Diplodicus would be extinct just like the dinosaur. What fires me up is the size of the government that shows no sign of not increasing year after every year. Government waste of taxpayer money fires me up. Entitlements piss me off.

The income tax fires me up because only a percentage of voters pay into the system. In a broad based tax system, everyone pays so then perhaps, people would pay more attention to government growth and expenditures. A broad based tax system will force all citizens to pay attention to where their tax money goes and where the government spends it. We need to bring all voters and citizens into the loop of paying taxes so they will feel the pain of government waste and government size.

[brien]

Quote by: Rainbow :-))) Can you present your concept for sharing that "tent" ?

In the concept of sharing the tent with the Camel, citizens are directly under the camels ass.

[Osborn F Enready]

brien said: In the concept of sharing the tent with the Camel, citizens are directly under the camels ass.

Or in the crap it is dropping upon them, being digested fodder for its agenda of war.

[arielmessenger]

because it was based originally on religious commitment, e.g., Acts 3:44,45
"Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need."

Marx took this as the basis for his "From each according their ability, to each according to their need." but Marx ruined the socialist ethic by divorcing it from religious commitment and tying it to militant commitment. You just cannot force people to share without building up resentments in non-religious committed folks. Guns only work to keep a militant socialist system working until people just get too fed up with the lack of freedom militant socialism entails.

I am a social change activist who's social philosophy is "Communitarian" as opposed to Socialist. While both are economic/political programs based on shared material resources, Communitarianism is a free choice for those who do link spiritual values with sharing material goods and services but there is no hierarchy of government to enforce that material sharing. It's a voluntary commitment and therefore much stronger as one can see in the continuing success of communitarian socialist societies like the Mennonites and Amish whose commitment to sharing is based on religious belief.

Meanwhile, the militant socialists failed to win the hearts and minds of their constituents over the long term because you cannot force the sharing ethic without religious commitment.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Humans do not want to be equal, those who claim to want to be equal want to have an equal opportunity to gain power or wealth over others.