Ignorance of those who attack Islam

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Captain Chaos Conservatives of both Islamic and Christian belief need to realize that only a monster would condemn someone to burn and be in pain for eternity.

Hell is where the people who have shut God out of themselves go, they chose that, the suffering in hell is not caused by God, but by the absence of Him. Someone who chooses to shut out God will forever have god shut out, what's more merciful than having your choice affirmed for eternity?

[dilligras]

Quote by: ame How can you laugh at something you don't even know? Because I think Islam is more than that.

An even better question, to my mind, would be how can you claim to know what someone else here does or does not know?

Do you imagine that there is no information available on the web about islam and several different interpretations of the koran,sunnahs and the hadiths as well?

Oops.


Sorry.





that's two questions.



As you were.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Praxius Islam carries the faith by the sword.... .

its a common misconception, go ahead and proove this

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Epistemologist Unless of course, I have a gun to my head. Ah, what the heck, they're my cultural enemies as well, and I shouldn't lie; I am against them, but I'm definitely not for the West. But I tried to make my above analysis as unbiased as possible. )

Maybe we can write up a treaty of cooperation and non-agression = )

[ghost_stalker]

I would love to believe in religion but I have thoughts. And that can really f*ck up the whole 'faith in a higher power' part of it.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: ame redneck scum?????? that was all youread in the koram?????:rolleyes:

i dont understand the question.
redneck scum is the title of dillygas, and whats this have to do with the koran?

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: The_Genius What is so similar about the following statements? 1. Pigs can fly. 2. Illuminati is watching everyone of us with hidden cameras. 3. Aliens want to take over planet earth. 4. Muslims are terrorists They are mere lies or conspiracy theories...

Exactly! Like the conspiracy theory Muslims conspire to put out that Muhammed, an admitted terrorist and user of torture, was a messenger of peace, love, and mercy for an Allah that you can`t prove exists.

[dilligras]

Quote by: ByaKya i dont understand the question. redneck scum is the title of dillygas, and whats this have to do with the koran?

ROLFLMBFAO!

Y'all ought to start yer own comedy team, like Laurel & Hardy......or the Marx Bros......or Abbot & Costello.....or, or, (dare I say it? It might get me banned for 'provocation', but I just can't seem to restrain myself, so Adios Amigos if it happens, it's been real.....or at least a virtual facsimile thereof ) Dumb & Dumber.

An overnight sensation, guaranteed......I can see it now......the red carpet......names in lights.......paparazzi.....wrecked Beemers in a Paris tunnel.......oh, the humanity!




Sigh. Carry on.

[xyzer]

, I'm not a sincere supporter of the anti-Muslim cause either. Unless of course, I have a gun to my head. Ah, what the heck, they're my cultural enemies as well, and I shouldn't lie; I am against them, but I'm definitely not for the West. But I tried to make my above analysis as unbiased as possible.

You may have tried Epist, but IMNSHO you failed? The cause is not anti Muslim! It is anti terrorist? It is an attempt to stop sympathetic funding and support for the actions of a few masquerading as perpetuators of a faith?
Your version of history is skewed also? e.g. the UN engineered the Partition of Palestine and the British complied by getting out.
You blame the rest of the world,including the USA, for trying to oppress Islamic believers and not tolerating their belief system? Thats a stretch? There are over a billion Islamic believers in the world and the ones being saught/fought by the west are but a small fraction.
Isn't it more realistic to conclude that this small group of fanatic trouble makers could be easily silenced by other Muslims? Instead, the problem of international terrorism is enhanced by those in the Islamic world who tolerate and countenance it? The failing of the Islamic belief system seems to be its antagonistic attitude to non believers and the influence of hate filled passages in the Koran..the Islamic official message to believers? It contains passages that countenance terrorist type behavior...hate for Jews and unbelievers!
This message of intolerance is part of the Islamic school curricula? It fires the problems in the middle east and elsewhere.
A couple of poster on this thread ignore the fact! They sympathize with mindless violence against the inncent and rationalize it in the name of religion? Rationa;ize murder and mayhem in the name of a belief system?
The blame game is their solace for supporting those who mindlessly kill non Muslims for a crazy cause/ Ever read any Muslim criticism of terrorist activities?

[RickSp]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Exactly! Like the conspiracy theory Muslims conspire to put out that Muhammed, an admitted terrorist and user of torture, was a messenger of peace, love, and mercy for an Allah that you can`t prove exists.

Here is a fine example of one who always starts the discussion with the assertion that Muhammed is a terrorist and a torturer while obviously knowing next to nothing about the Islamic world. He just repeats his own bromides as if slurs are actually discussion.

As an atheist I have no great fondness for any of the three Semitic religions, but I do find bigotry distateful. Given the state of the world today, having an understanding of the religious perspectives of others is invaluable. Bigotry is just another obstacle.

[xyzer]

Hey Rick...Sometimes we agree?:eek:

As an atheist I have no great fondness for any of the three Semitic religions, but I do find bigotry distateful. Given the state of the world today, having an understanding of the religious perspectives of others is invaluable. Bigotry is just another obstacle.

I don't fit the atheist category..but I do agree that religious belief is a peculiarly human phenomena? Religions are human inventions of the theory and reason for our, and the worlds, existence? Metaphysical expressions?
It follows that since some humans are bigoted/.subjective/inventive, there are flaws in most humanly conceived belief systems?

I do not agree that pointing our the origins and peculiarities of a founder of a religion, that has some pretty violent passages in its holy book, is bigotry?
Pointing out differences is crucial to discussion!

[RickSp]

Quote by: xyzer The blame game is their solace for supporting those who mindlessly kill non Muslims for a crazy cause/ Ever read any Muslim criticism of terrorist activities?

Excellent. Demonstrating your ignorance proves the first poster's point. Regrettably you are not alone in that ignorance. Here is an excellent article by Professor Juan Cole refuting a similar statement by Tom Friedman.
Friedman Wrong About Muslims Again And the Amman Statement on Ecumenism

These are also good summaries:

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Scholars of Islam & the Tragedy of Sept. 11th

How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism

So to answer your question "Ever read any Muslim criticism of terrorist activities?". Yes.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: xyzer I do not agree that pointing our the origins and peculiarities of a founder of a religion, that has some pretty violent passages in its holy book, is bigotry?

Agreed. Well said.

[RickSp]

Quote by: xyzer I do not agree that pointing our the origins and peculiarities of a founder of a religion, that has some pretty violent passages in its holy book, is bigotry? Pointing out differences is crucial to discussion!

What annoys me is when Christians attack the Koran by quoting the sword verses, while ignoring equally ugly and violent passages in the Bible. The hypocrisy of it all stinks to high heaven and it obscures the real issues. It is akin to the anti-Semites who "prove" that Jews are evil by misquoting the Talmud. It is little more that trying to put lipstick on bigotry.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: RickSp What annoys me is when Christians attack the Koran by quoting the sword verses, while ignoring equally ugly and violent passages in the Bible.

Agreed. Only those persons who are not captured by superstition and Fairy God Kings should point out to those who are the sword verses and non-reasoning thought they use to keep believing in their delusions.

Those Christians annoy me, too.

[GHook93]

QUOTE=ame;323744The Iraqis never protested on the streets to ask USA to come and overthrow Saddam and to colonize in their country. However, the US military took the liberty to come to Iraq and defend the Iraqis by freeing them from a dictator (though Iraqis didn't ask) and to put Iraq under democracy.

Yea, because it was so easy to protest in Iraq under Sadam. LOL, could you be any more clueless

The Americans accomplished their mission, though their real goal wasn't to defend Iraqis as they claimed . We can see that by looking at how much Iraqis are being killed even after the overthrow of Saddam.

The mission, at least the ones that most American supported, was to rid Iraq of WMDs. Bush had his own agenda, which not many still support.

Let's remember that Iraq was no threat to the US. However you justify the US action by saying: "You would have rather waited until Saddam Hussein could do something to harm us?"

Once it was apparant that Sadam didn't have WMDs you are correct.

Then you are against Islam for demanding that Israel must be destroyed. Well, Israel killed their family members, raped their land and women, and destroyed their country. Now imagine someone doing these things to your country.

Watch a little too much state run TV in Lebannon. Your crappy country provokes a war, your gutless "heros" hide behind civils, in which to create a much collateral damage as possible (PR war) and you cry foul. Typical

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: ame Then you are against Islam for demanding that Israel must be destroyed. Well, Israel killed their family members, raped their land and women, and destroyed their country. Now imagine someone doing these things to your country.

That`s easy to imagine for Native Americans in the U.S. -- thanks to Europeans. Are Native Americans and other countries calling for the U.S. to be wiped off the map?

Sometimes the defeated must accept the faits accompli status they find themselves in several generations later.

[ame]

Quote by: dilligras An even better question, to my mind, would be how can you claim to know what someone else here does or does not know? Do you imagine that there is no information available on the web about islam and several different interpretations of the koran,sunnahs and the hadiths as well? Oops. Sorry. that's two questions. As you were.

Well I can't. But surely, I can know that Right of Center knows nothing about Islam. Since he said that Islam "they are a pretty angry bunch of people". This statement shows how ignorant he is about Islam since they are more than that.
There is a lot of information about Islam on the web. So if you are interested I can give you some links.

[ame]

Quote by: ByaKya i dont understand the question. redneck scum is the title of dillygas, and whats this have to do with the koran?

Never mind, I miss understood.
sorry

[xyzer]

Demonstrating your ignorance proves the first poster's point. Regrettably you are not alone in that ignorance. Here is an excellent article by Professor Juan Cole refuting a similar statement by Tom Friedman.

Lets get down to brass tacks Rick! You are attempting to generalize off a few specifics. Yes a few(there aren't many in the US) American Muslims who have criticized! Where and how often in the mainstream press have we seen such criticisms?

Note! in Europe even putting so called critical cartoons in the paper has led to violence and threats by these uncritical masses? Making a documentary critical of Islam got as Dutchman killed?But by and large the supporters and funders of this mayhem and murder are Islamic believers..ergo they do not make any efforts that I can discern, to catch and punish those who mureder other Muslims by the thousand in Iraq and elsewhere around the world. Prevent,those who lob missiles into Israeal? Imams who teach hate and destruction to infidels and Jews to the school kids? Terrorist Groups Hezbollah., Hamas and the like, who take over countries and murder those who stand in the way? What causes the savagery, ignorance an tribalism of Islamic countries? Even those that have become relatively rich from the selling of the oil(developed and refined by western technology) have rules subjugating females and pushing religious hate over enlightened educationand culture?

Is that an expression of resistance to this religiously driven murder and conversion by conquest? Get Real! We see evidence of the standard excuse making on this thread...It's somebody elses faut that the Arab/Islamic Nations are non productive? It's some other nations fault that there is continual trumoil in the Islamic world of African and the Middle East..that people are starving in Darfur? Why have the oil rich Arab nations surrounding Palestine done nothing to help out that poverty stricken nation? Done nothing to help that largely Islamic nation? Instead they posture And threaten the Israelis and blame them? If this was a fault free compassionate belief system why does it not act that way?

Speak of ignorance Rick and I reply you are either numb to world events or ignorant in your own right? How many Islamic representatives do we have in the ranks of Nobel Prize winners? How many scientists and scholars has that billion person religion produced? How many females have been pushed into subjugation and ignorance by this religion? Lets face it , Islam is a religion of the dark ages that has never benefited from the enlightment of the modern world...has never allowed freedom of expression and initiative for fear it will taint the ancient doctrine of a bandit chief who had dreams which were put down as commandmants for the faithful?