Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Right of Center · Jan 3, 2007, 10:05 pm

Quote:

Quote by: RickSp

Who is the greater terrorist - a madman who hijacks planes and flys them into buildings killing thousands, or the president who starts a war with a country that never attacked us and whose air force kills many many thousands more in the first days of the war? Can you say "shock and awe"? Both men claim to be guided by the hand of god. Who has created the greater terror?

So by your stance war is never justified? You would have rather waited until Saddam Hussein could do something to harm us? I'm just trying to figure out what you believe that's all. The stink of exaggeration is kind of blurring my vision and confusing me.

Right of Center · Jan 3, 2007, 10:08 pm

I laugh at Islam. I mean they are a pretty angry bunch of people. Actions speak louder then words. Remember when Pope Benedict said that some Muslims condone violence and killing? Remember how the Muslims responded? They responded by destroying churches, harming Christians and Jews, trampled on some flags, and demanded Israel be destroyed (I guess the Pope was right).

**Jack** · Jan 3, 2007, 10:11 pm

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Liberals and atheists need to believe that statement, because if they are wrong they will suffer for eternity.

I know a lot of liberal Christians, many of them ministers. Are you saying only Republicans get to go to heaven now?
Atheists don't take any of it seriously. It is fascinating though to witness all the discord within the camps of all these believers.

Scribbler1 · Jan 3, 2007, 10:15 pm

Quote:

Quote by: saif

You ever painted or drew a picture from a blank page or canvas? not one of those lame paint by bumbers or inside the lines do it yourself's, but from the depths of your imagination? You have an idea a brainstorm of what it shall look like what the image is even before you have brushed a single stroke. Thats the image that I am hoping that ypu undertsand that the image came from the painter and its not a self portate

Any miniscule artictic talent I may have is channeled through other media, but that isn't relevent to this discussion. But if I do draw a picture that is NOT a self portrait it isn't in my image. If "image" is taken to mean something other than a physical resemblance it must then mean we have something else which is significantly the same as what God has. But as we are inferior in every way to God then that can't be right, can it? No creation must take any particular form but if it is a form unlike anything the artist is then there is no "his image".

Image: n.
A reproduction of the form of a person or object, especially a sculptured likeness.

One that closely or exactly resembles another; a double: He is the image of his uncle. (note the word HIS)

Here's one that might fit your definition: "A mental picture of something not real or present." However, the word HIS messes that one up. An error in translation, perhaps?

Right of Center · Jan 3, 2007, 10:16 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

I know a lot of liberal Christians, many of them ministers. Are you saying only Republicans get to go to heaven now?
Atheists don't take any of it seriously. It is fascinating though to witness all the discord within the camps of all these believers.

No, hardly...At least I hope not...I mean would you want to spend paradise with a man like Bill O'Reilly or Donald Trump. (Yuck not me) All I'm saying is that there are no atheist Republicans that I know of. However you can name many atheist liberals. Next time I won't throw liberals in.

It is also fascinating to watch the amoral actions of the unbelievers go unpunished. Whether you believe there is a hell or not, I am reassured at the mere thought of radical atheists being thrown into the burning pit of hell...it keeps me sane.

dilligras · Jan 3, 2007, 10:47 pm

Personally, I find most religions a bit egocentric and self-serving. To imagine, with all the matter in the universe, and all the potential for different life forms out there, given the number of different iterations on just this one planet, that an omnipotent, onmiscient entity would spend two minutes of consideration over just one species, is but the height of arrogant fantasy.

That is but one of the reasons I reject organized religions, but I hold a special sort of rejection in my heart for the cowards of islam.

From what I can discern through my research, Mohammed was an epileptic, whose severe siezures were conveniently interpreted as "visions". He saw God.

So what? So do I, after a good strong hit on the ol' chillum.

A bandit chieftain who gained the loyalty of his murdering band of sand pirates with the booty of looted communities, he murdered all the men in an entire Jewish town, enslaving their wives, daughters, mothers and sisters. And he spent a whole day personally witnessing each execution by beheading.

You call him holy?

OK.

Just don't proselytize to me, pilgrim, 'cause I ain't buying anything from that flea market.

As you were.

Scribbler1 · Jan 3, 2007, 10:54 pm

Quote:

Quote by: dilligras

You call him holy?

I think their point, at least the point of the ones we see on TV all the time, is to make YOU call him holy.

**Jack** · Jan 3, 2007, 10:57 pm

Quote:

I am reassured at the mere thought of radical atheists being thrown into the burning pit of hell...it keeps me sane.

I'm sure you're a very nice person, but statements like that make me very happy I'm an atheist. It allows me the freedom to think nicely of others, at least until given a better reason to not like them than the mere fact they don't agree with me.

dilligras · Jan 3, 2007, 11:04 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Scribbler1

I think their point, at least the point of the ones we see on TV all the time, is to make YOU call him holy.

Yeah. Waaal, I reckon they'll be peddlin' snowcones in Hell first.

Scribbler1 · Jan 3, 2007, 11:18 pm

They don't see it that way, of course, but I hear you.

ByaKya · Jan 4, 2007, 06:39 am

Quote:

Quote by: dilligras

Personally, I find most religions a bit egocentric and self-serving. To imagine, with all the matter in the universe, and all the potential for different life forms out there, given the number of different iterations on just this one planet, that an omnipotent, onmiscient entity would spend two minutes of consideration over just one species, is but the height of arrogant fantasy.

That is but one of the reasons I reject organized religions, but I hold a special sort of rejection in my heart for the cowards of islam.

From what I can discern through my research, Mohammed was an epileptic, whose severe siezures were conveniently interpreted as "visions". He saw God.

So what? So do I, after a good strong hit on the ol' chillum.

A bandit chieftain who gained the loyalty of his murdering band of sand pirates with the booty of looted communities, he murdered all the men in an entire Jewish town, enslaving their wives, daughters, mothers and sisters. And he spent a whole day personally witnessing each execution by beheading.

You call him holy?

OK.

Just don't proselytize to me, pilgrim, 'cause I ain't buying anything from that flea market.

As you were.

come on, lets make a deal, nothing is braver then dropping bombs from a few miles up like our brave boys in the airforce, ANYONE can strap a bomb to their chest!
well how about an english copy of the koran, i mean you got "redneck scum" for your title, so it must be an intellectual thing?
cheers

Praxius · Jan 4, 2007, 09:30 am

Quote:

Quote by: saif

Well I have been a member longer...

Perhaps, but I've already contributed more then you

Not that I really care.... I change my avatars often..... I thought the coincidence was interesting.

Captain Chaos · Jan 4, 2007, 10:21 am

Quote:

Quote by: Right of Center

Liberals and atheists need to believe that statement, because if they are wrong they will burn and be in pain for eternity.

Conservatives of both Islamic and Christian belief need to realize that only a monster would condemn someone to burn and be in pain for eternity.

Captain Chaos · Jan 4, 2007, 10:23 am

Quote:

Quote by: Right of Center

Whether you believe there is a hell or not, I am reassured at the mere thought of radical atheists being thrown into the burning pit of hell...it keeps me sane.

Perhaps you would benefit from contemplating the love and forgiveness side of your religion?

What you said here is pretty damn sick.

RickSp · Jan 4, 2007, 11:19 am

Quote:

Quote by: Right of Center

So by your stance war is never justified? You would have rather waited until Saddam Hussein could do something to harm us? I'm just trying to figure out what you believe that's all. The stink of exaggeration is kind of blurring my vision and confusing me.

Self defense is always justified. Aggressive wars are not. Retaliating against Bin Laden was justified. Invading a country that never did, wasn't. When Bush invaded Iraq, Saddam was no threat to us. The conservatives miss the bloody irony that when Saddam had WMD and was using them, he was our friend and ally. When he had no WMD and was weak, we invaded. It is madness that has gotten over 25,000 Americans killed or wounded and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

Praxius · Jan 4, 2007, 11:44 am

Of course it keeps him sane.... someone else besides himself would be suffering for having a different opinion on life..... why not?

The core basis of Christianity...... feared into believing it is all true by the chance of suffering for eternity and to think any other way will lead you to the same route.

Islam carries the faith by the sword.... Chrisianity carries the faith by fear and alienation.

ame · Jan 4, 2007, 08:37 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Right of Center

So by your stance war is never justified? You would have rather waited until Saddam Hussein could do something to harm us? I'm just trying to figure out what you believe that's all. The stink of exaggeration is kind of blurring my vision and confusing me.

The Iraqis never protested on the streets to ask USA to come and overthrow Saddam and to colonize in their country. However, the US military took the liberty to come to Iraq and defend the Iraqis by freeing them from a dictator (though Iraqis didn't ask) and to put Iraq under democracy. The Americans accomplished their mission, though their real goal wasn't to defend Iraqis as they claimed . We can see that by looking at how much Iraqis are being killed even after the overthrow of Saddam. Let's remember that Iraq was no threat to the US. However you justify the US action by saying: "You would have rather waited until Saddam Hussein could do something to harm us?" Then you are against Islam for demanding that Israel must be destroyed. Well, Israel killed their family members, raped their land and women, and destroyed their country. Now imagine someone doing these things to your country. What will you demand?

ame · Jan 4, 2007, 08:38 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Right of Center

I laugh at Islam. I mean they are a pretty angry bunch of people. Actions speak louder then words. Remember when Pope Benedict said that some Muslims condone violence and killing? Remember how the Muslims responded? They responded by destroying churches, harming Christians and Jews, trampled on some flags, and demanded Israel be destroyed (I guess the Pope was right).

You laugh at Islam since "they are a pretty angry bunch of people". I don't get that. How can you laugh at something you don't even know? Because I think Islam is more than that.

ame · Jan 4, 2007, 08:42 pm

Quote:

Quote by: ByaKya

come on, lets make a deal, nothing is braver then dropping bombs from a few miles up like our brave boys in the airforce, ANYONE can strap a bomb to their chest!
well how about an english copy of the koran, i mean you got "redneck scum" for your title, so it must be an intellectual thing?
cheers

redneck scum?????? that was all youread in the koram?????:rolleyes:

Epistemologist · Jan 4, 2007, 09:23 pm

Yeah, Muslims are pissed off, and from their perspective, they have a right to be. Even as early as sixty years ago, there was no quasi-extremism even as the English evicted Palestinians from their homes in order to make a Jewish state of Israel.

And then, years later, when England and France tried to take over the Suez Canal from Egypt, more people were pissed off. And when the Westerners came to the support of Israel when Egypt tried to get back its territories years later, even more were pissed.

Today, as the utter disregard for dark-skinned life and money-driven oil conquests of the West continue, I think that a relatively unbiased observer would at least sympathize with them to some degree. They've been backed up to a corner for a long time, and they're fighting for their survival against cultural enemies that they can't afford to ignore like many other cultures have done.

Yes, they may be violent. But like I said, they're backed up. Then again, none of us will try to be unbiased, particularly as many of our friends, family, and countrymen and harmed by a cultural enemy's attacks e.g. train bombings, airplane hijackings. They have the same initiative though.

So, I'm not a supporter of the Muslim cause; I'm not a Muslim. But then again, I'm not a sincere supporter of the anti-Muslim cause either. Unless of course, I have a gun to my head. Ah, what the heck, they're my cultural enemies as well, and I shouldn't lie; I am against them, but I'm definitely not for the West. But I tried to make my above analysis as unbiased as possible.

Okay, good night.

Jan 3, 2007, 10:08 pm	#22 (permalink) (top)
Right of Center Truthfully Sarcastic Location: Montana Posts: 194	I laugh at Islam. I mean they are a pretty angry bunch of people. Actions speak louder then words. Remember when Pope Benedict said that some Muslims condone violence and killing? Remember how the Muslims responded? They responded by destroying churches, harming Christians and Jews, trampled on some flags, and demanded Israel be destroyed (I guess the Pope was right). Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have. Quote by Davy Crockett

Jan 3, 2007, 10:47 pm	#26 (permalink) (top)
dilligras redneck scum Location: Cut n Shoot, Texas Posts: 835	Personally, I find most religions a bit egocentric and self-serving. To imagine, with all the matter in the universe, and all the potential for different life forms out there, given the number of different iterations on just this one planet, that an omnipotent, onmiscient entity would spend two minutes of consideration over just one species, is but the height of arrogant fantasy. That is but one of the reasons I reject organized religions, but I hold a special sort of rejection in my heart for the cowards of islam. From what I can discern through my research, Mohammed was an epileptic, whose severe siezures were conveniently interpreted as "visions". He saw God. So what? So do I, after a good strong hit on the ol' chillum. A bandit chieftain who gained the loyalty of his murdering band of sand pirates with the booty of looted communities, he murdered all the men in an entire Jewish town, enslaving their wives, daughters, mothers and sisters. And he spent a whole day personally witnessing each execution by beheading. You call him holy? OK. Just don't proselytize to me, pilgrim, 'cause I ain't buying anything from that flea market. As you were. Why do I not trust the left? Could it be that familiarity has reared the distasteful expectation sired by past offense? Only The Shadow knows...

Jan 3, 2007, 11:18 pm	#30 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	They don't see it that way, of course, but I hear you. Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Jan 4, 2007, 09:23 pm	#40 (permalink) (top)
Epistemologist God is good Location: Down by the river, stealing your water Posts: 1,518	Yeah, Muslims are pissed off, and from their perspective, they have a right to be. Even as early as sixty years ago, there was no quasi-extremism even as the English evicted Palestinians from their homes in order to make a Jewish state of Israel. And then, years later, when England and France tried to take over the Suez Canal from Egypt, more people were pissed off. And when the Westerners came to the support of Israel when Egypt tried to get back its territories years later, even more were pissed. Today, as the utter disregard for dark-skinned life and money-driven oil conquests of the West continue, I think that a relatively unbiased observer would at least sympathize with them to some degree. They've been backed up to a corner for a long time, and they're fighting for their survival against cultural enemies that they can't afford to ignore like many other cultures have done. Yes, they may be violent. But like I said, they're backed up. Then again, none of us will try to be unbiased, particularly as many of our friends, family, and countrymen and harmed by a cultural enemy's attacks e.g. train bombings, airplane hijackings. They have the same initiative though. So, I'm not a supporter of the Muslim cause; I'm not a Muslim. But then again, I'm not a sincere supporter of the anti-Muslim cause either. Unless of course, I have a gun to my head. Ah, what the heck, they're my cultural enemies as well, and I shouldn't lie; I am against them, but I'm definitely not for the West. But I tried to make my above analysis as unbiased as possible. Okay, good night. But what's to stop the manic tide, The suicide of our own pride? The Complex

Jan 4, 2007, 11:44 am	#36 (permalink) (top)
Praxius Mass'Debator Posts: 4,724	Of course it keeps him sane.... someone else besides himself would be suffering for having a different opinion on life..... why not? The core basis of Christianity...... feared into believing it is all true by the chance of suffering for eternity and to think any other way will lead you to the same route. Islam carries the faith by the sword.... Chrisianity carries the faith by fear and alienation.