european energy dependency

[bishop]

much as we're dependent on the middle east and south america for our energy, europe overly depends on russia for its energy. it's another case of a western country/countries dependent on unsavory suppliers. in europe's case, it's putin's authoritarian and horribly corrupt russia.

Russia Belarus Gas Pricing Row Sparks Jitters in Europe | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 29.12.2006

Russia and Belarus are holding fresh talks Friday to defuse a row over natural gas that threatens to halt imports to Belarus and disrupt energy supplies to the European Union beginning Monday, Jan 1. With less than 100 hours to go before Belarus must agree to a more than doubling of gas prices or see supplies cut, both sides expressed guarded hope. <snip> Currently, Belarus pays Gazprom $46.68 (35 euros) per 1,000 cubic metres of gas. Gazprom originally demanded an increase to $200, which is closer to western European prices, unless Belarus agreed to sell 50 percent of its domestic pipeline operator Beltransgaz. Gazprom has since reduced that demand to $105 per 1,000 cubic metres -- $75 per 1,000 cubic metres in cash payments, plus the equivalent of another $30 in shares of Beltransgaz. Gazprom says it will end supplies to Belarus at early New Year's Day, if the ex-Soviet republic fails to agree to the price hike. Belarus, which lies sandwiched between Russia and the European Union, threatens to retaliate by refusing to allow transit of Russian gas to Europe, potentially hitting supplies in Germany, Lithuania and Poland.

there was also another incident with gazprom earlier in the year - with ukraine.

Russia-Ukraine gas dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

* Austria – supplies down by around 33% * Croatia – supplies down by around 33% [29] * France – supplies down by 25–30% * Germany – supplies down by an unspecified amount * Hungary – Russian imports down 40% * Italy – Russian imports down 24% (6% of total imports) [30] * Poland – supply down by 14% * Romania – supplies down by around 20% * Slovakia – supplies down by around 33% * Slovenia – Russian supplies down by around 33% (40% of average annual gas supply). The United Kingdom has expressed concern that there would be a drop in their supplies in the near future, though none had yet been reported. [31] In response to these drops Gazprom announced that more gas would be pumped to Europe [32].

given this considerable risk, it'd be interesting to see if the europeans actually take action on their own to develop alternative energy technologies - substantial enough to divorce themselves on being dependent on russia and its former satellites.

[Gods_Mercenary]

It'd be interesting to see th Europeans take action on anything.

[Nono]

Quote by: G'sM It'd be interesting to see th Europeans take action on anything.

Well jeez, Gawd, how bout givin us a few examples of the (doubtless millions of) areas where them boys jes hang around with theys hands in theys pockets.

Quote by: bishop it'd be interesting to see if the europeans actually take action on their own to develop alternative energy technologies - substantial enough to divorce themselves on being dependent on russia and its former satellites

The EU (if that's what you mean by "the europeans" (as in the habitual, sweeping US generic term for them effin Yurp-peons) is miles ahead of the US in terms of energy-conservation programmes, though you're right that they're now dangerously over-dependent on Russia, and therefore giving that thug Putin a soft'n'cushy ride on human rights that they never would have given the USSR for a second.

Just goes to show what high energy prices can do for a fella's political standing.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Well, let's see, they refuse to do something in Darfur, knowing full well that the U.S. is slightly overextended and doesn't want another war, They won't put any real sanctions on Iran or bully China and russia into placing them. I might have to do a little research for more, but overall the EU doesn't provide much leadership, expecting the US to handle stuff, kinda wierd why they would want us to handle stuff, but they do.

[bishop]

it's great to see that other countries, or collectives, are investing in alternative energies.. if europe is so far advanced in terms of energy independence, then it shows just how far the u.s. has to go to catch up, and surpass.. if europe is "miles ahead", then that could be implied that it's a nearly impossible task for the u.s. to even catch up without completely wrecking its economy.

of course, my post made no mention of the u.s. - it's a european thread for a european issue. dependency on russia is unlikely to result in any real focus in europe to become energy independent (if that's even possible at this point). it could, instead, result in newfound alliances with countries like iran - and/or foreign entanglements in energy producing countries.

[Nono]

Quote by: God'sM Well, let's see, they refuse to do something in Darfur, knowing full well that the U.S. is slightly overextended and doesn't want another war, They won't put any real sanctions on Iran or bully China and russia into placing them. I might have to do a little research for more, but overall the EU doesn't provide much leadership, expecting the US to handle stuff, kinda wierd why they would want us to handle stuff, but they do.

Darfur: You're right. But neither does anyone else. So that puts them in some pretty numerous company. By the way, you'll have to decide whether you prefer a monolithic EU with a single, firm foreign policy -- a total pipedream for the moment but what would be a prerequisite to any action on Darfur -- or the loose, eternally-arguing assembly that actually exists and is favoured by the Anglo-Saxons in any case. Can't have it both ways.

Sanctions on Iran: Smell the coffee, Gawd. Sanctions don't work. Remember Iraq?

Bullying China and Russia: While I agree that the EU joins the rest of the world in looking the other way, you obviously don't have a clue about the feeble extent of European integration.

You seem to think it's one big country LOL.

[Nono]

Quote by: bishop my post made no mention of the u.s.

Sorry, but we've heard so much sanctimonious shit out of the US about "the Europeans this" and "the Europeans that" that comparisons are a matter of reflex.

I agree that Europe (especially Germany) is playing with fire vis-à-vis Russian gas in particular.

[The_Genius]

Russian economy is booming... They suffered quite a lot after the Soviet Union dissolved. Thus, I see it as their way to regain lost pride and once again stamp their authority in Europe...

[Gods_Mercenary]

Putin will do it, too. We have to be careful.

[Nono]

Quote by: The Genius Russian economy is booming...

It's booming thanks to high energy prices (precisely the arguement the anti-Chavez types make re Venezuela). If their pride took a nasty blow post-1989, it's because of the grotesque way they ran the place for the previous 70 years (sorry, I mean 1,000 years when you think about it). That is, their "pride" came from being the Biggest Thug on the Block. Not a great source IMHO.

[The_Genius]

Quote by: Nono It's booming thanks to high energy prices (precisely the arguement the Anti-Chavez types make re Venezuela). If their pride took a nasty blow post-1989, it's because of the grotesque way they ran the place for the previous 70 years (sorry, I mean 1,000 years when you think about it). That is, their "pride" came from being the Biggest Thug on the Block. Not a great source IMHO.

All I can say is Russia is dodgy...

:confused:

[Gods_Mercenary]

They've made a democracy authoritarian, thay just love their brutal dictators I guess.

[Nono]

By the way, welcome to Volcono, Genius. I believe you're the first member we've had in South Africa, or Africa period.

[The_Genius]

Quote by: Nono By the way, welcome to Volcono, Genius. I believe you're the first member we've had in South Africa, or Africa period.

Thanks man. Although I live in South Africa, I was born and bred in Bangladesh.



The scary thing is, for many Russians, 'homicide' seems to be the only solution to many obstacles. Its scary.. I imagine a state-controlled, feared, dark, sombre society when I think of Russia.

[Gods_Mercenary]

South Africa, man, that's a long way from Massachusetts. The Internets cool that way.

[The_Genius]

Dude, you sound like I live in an isolated island...

[bishop]

Quote by: nono Sorry, but we've heard so much sanctimonious shit out of the US about "the Europeans this" and "the Europeans that" that comparisons are a matter of reflex.

i think you and a few fellow europeans could be guilty of the same sorts of generalizations regarding americans/the u.s...

in europe, germany seems to be way ahead of member EU states - and if it can be so adversely effected by energy supply cuts, then that shows the vulnerability of other EU states (regardless of how efficient they are).

i wonder if energy independence has grown to be a major election issue throughout europe.

[Gods_Mercenary]

You have to understand that when Americans think Africa, we think bushmen stabbing an antelope with a spear. It's a consequence of growing up thinking you're the best country in the world, you tend to think everyone else are cavemen. Actually, South Africas very modern, right?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: bishop i think you and a few fellow europeans could be guilty of the same sorts of generalizations regarding americans/the u.s... in europe, germany seems to be way ahead of member EU states - and if it can be so adversely effected by energy supply cuts, then that shows the vulnerability of other EU states (regardless of how efficient they are). i wonder if energy independence has grown to be a major election issue throughout europe.

I'm pretty sure you think we're all texans, right?

[The_Genius]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary You have to understand that when Americans think Africa, we think bushmen stabbing an antelope with a spear. It's a consequence of growing up thinking you're the best country in the world, you tend to think everyone else are cavemen. Actually, South Africas very modern, right?

Don't tell me you also live in a bubble like many average americans. South Africa is modern yes... I am yet to see bushmen hunting down animals with spears.