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Dr. Debate · Dec 30, 2006, 04:15 am

There is a big deal about what's going on in Israel/Palestine, and I understand that it's a horrible thing, but why doesn't the world (especially Arabs and Muslims) ever mention (or in some cases admit) so many things that happened in the Middle East?

For example, because make a huge deal (and I think that they should) about Palestine/Israel, but no one EVER mentions stuff that happened in places like Pakistan or Turkey (referring to Bangladesh Genocide or Armenian/Assyrian Genocides).

Why do a lot of Muslims in the Arab world make a big deal about what happens to them, but not the other way around?

Why don't Muslims and Arabs recognize their own atrocities, and create chaos when Christians or Jews commit crimes? And not just Arabs and Muslims, but even "liberals" that you see in America.

What's the deal? I'm probably incorrect on some of this, and I'm looking to learn. So please give me your opinions on this so I can be educated

P.S. I'm not trying to be biased, I'm against a lot of what America does and Israel, but I just find it odd :confused:

The_Genius · Dec 30, 2006, 05:39 am

The situation in Palestine is worse than apartheid South Africa. The only logical and plausible solution comes to my mind is an independent Palestinian State. A solution can only be reached through negotiations, not militarily. However, the problem is, Israel is not willing to negotiate with Hamas.

shrike · Dec 30, 2006, 06:37 am

Quote:

The situation in Palestine is worse than apartheid South Africa. The only logical and plausible solution comes to my mind is an independent Palestinian State. A solution can only be reached through negotiations, not militarily. However, the problem is, Israel is not willing to negotiate with Hamas.

No the problem is that Hamas don't want to recognise Israel right to exist .There is no point to negotiate with Hamas its like negotiating with Hitler.

The_Genius · Dec 30, 2006, 02:40 pm

Quote:

Quote by: shrike

No the problem is that Hamas don't want to recognise Israel right to exist .There is no point to negotiate with Hamas its like negotiating with Hitler.

Well Hamas got a point... Logically speaking, you simply can not go to a place and tell the land owner, "hey man, my great great great great great grandpa lived in this place 2000 years ago. Now I have a right to live here."

How does that sound? Stupid. I know...

shrike · Dec 30, 2006, 04:18 pm

Quote:

Well Hamas got a point... Logically speaking, you simply can not go to a place and tell the land owner, "hey man, my great great great great great grandpa lived in this place 2000 years ago. Now I have a right to live here."

I really tired debating the same thing over and over (look in other threads if you interested)again but its irrelevant whatever Hamas is right or not and what you presented its really happened(and its not).
The only thing is a relevant is a peace solution.For peace to happen Hamas should recognise Israel, stop hostilities against Israel than there will be negotiations.
If there would be ever a piece in the region as far as i see it will be along the Clinton Plan.

Dr. Debate · Dec 31, 2006, 02:12 am

Don't get off topic

And btw, the things that happened then are MUCH more serious.

Like in Pakistan, 3,000,000 people were killed....

I believe that that deserves recognition.

The_Genius · Dec 31, 2006, 03:33 am

Quote:

Quote by: shrike

I really tired debating the same thing over and over (look in other threads if you interested)again but its irrelevant whatever Hamas is right or not and what you presented its really happened(and its not).
The only thing is a relevant is a peace solution.For peace to happen Hamas should recognise Israel, stop hostilities against Israel than there will be negotiations.
If there would be ever a piece in the region as far as i see it will be along the Clinton Plan.

Israel tends to "pick" the party with which it wants to negotiate. Thats a major stumbling block... When it comes to negotiation, you can not choose. You have to bring all parties (be it Fatah or Hamas) onto the table.

ByaKya · Dec 31, 2006, 05:48 am

Genius, welcome to the forums! I'm liking your opinions on many things = )

To the OP, in most of the places you are talking about that involves muslims killing muslims, it is simply civil war. Brother killing brother, so it is hard to pick sides in such situations I would suspect.

Armenian genocide was done by turks, they deny it was genocide.

And I'm unaware of muslim genocides, if they are over with and in the past, then I don't see why they would continue talking about it more than a genocide that is happening now in palestine or iraq.

Also you can't lump all muslims together, there are about 1.5 billion of them spread over some 50 states. And the same with arabs, there's 300 some million of them over 23 states. Muslims don't speak with one voice and arabs don't speak with one voice.

But in palestine there is no civil war. It is israelis killing palestinians by a ratio of more than ten to one and injured 100 to one. Israels vicious attacks on palestinians is very one sided, and it is clear who the aggressor is.

But I conclude that you got this question from a zionist site, they love red herrings. I destroyed the question though, so now you'll have to either admit you learned and move on, or find something to continue with this flawed reasoning
I'm betting on the latter = )

Dr. Debate · Dec 31, 2006, 08:35 pm

Turks killed Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians. More than 1 million died.

They deny any genocide whatsoever, and none of them recognize the atrocities.

Is it civil war when the Pakistani Army is ordered to kill every Bengal they find...why don't people recognize what happened over 20 years after the whole Israel/Palestine conflict had really started?

ByaKya · Dec 31, 2006, 10:54 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Dr. Debate

Turks killed Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians. More than 1 million died.

They deny any genocide whatsoever, and none of them recognize the atrocities.

Is it civil war when the Pakistani Army is ordered to kill every Bengal they find...why don't people recognize what happened over 20 years after the whole Israel/Palestine conflict had really started?

The turks deny it was a genocide. i believe i answered your question.
Even Israel denies it was a genocide and they should know since theyve been through one and now they are carrying one out.

It was indeed a civil war. east pakistan broke off and pakistan tried to bring it back by force and they failed.

Now your colors are showing, both of the events in question have been addressed and or denied.

Now everyone is focusing on the israeli mass murder and occupation of palestinians, or should everyone put a hold on that whole issue in order to reexamine something that happened 20 years ago?
Sound good zionist?

Dr. Debate · Jan 1, 2007, 10:35 pm

Haha I'm not a zionist, I just like to change my point of view to better understand the people that I talk to. Try it.

It may have been a Civil War, but were the Bengals ordered to kill every Pakistani that they see, or even try to kill them like the Pakistanis did them? It was a genocide, you can't deny it. It's like,

No, not put it on hold, but address that as well. I understand what you're saying, but still these things have not been addressed 1/10th as much as the situation in Israel is being addressed. I agree that it's not happening now and the significance isn't as high, but no one even pays attention to it...

Arabs act like they're always the victims, they've got to recognize their atrocities first before pointing fingers at others.

ByaKya · Jan 1, 2007, 11:27 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Dr. Debate

Arabs act like they're always the victims, they've got to recognize their atrocities first before pointing fingers at others.

What atrocities are you talking about?
Turks arent arabs.
Bangladeshies arent arabs
Armenians arent
Pakistanis arent.

So far what you have mentioned are civil wars. still none of what you have mentioned are recognized as genocides.
And if you are going to rank "races" that commit genocide, arabs wont rank too high, nor will muslims.
The kings of genocide are europeans and christians.

If youre not a zionist, then you are barking up the wrong tree for the wrong reasons.
you sound like this:

"Hey you arabs and mazlems, why you all so concerned about palestine, arabs do lots of genocides why not talk about that roflwafflecakes"

Dr. Debate · Jan 2, 2007, 11:10 pm

ByaKya, first of all, I should have written just Middle Easterns rather than Arabs, or just Middle Eastern Muslims.

These genocides have been happened in the Middle East and around that area, and still get limited recognition.

The thing in Turkey, you call that a Civil War? They make these things up just to bring down the blame. They say stuff like "Oh they were helping the enemy" or what not. That's the reason it always happens. It happened with the Jews and Hitler, it happened with Saddam's killings, and it happens everywhere and these are just known as "Civil Wars".

ByaKya · Jan 3, 2007, 02:49 am

Quote:

Quote by: Dr. Debate

ByaKya, first of all, I should have written just Middle Easterns rather than Arabs, or just Middle Eastern Muslims.

These genocides have been happened in the Middle East and around that area, and still get limited recognition.

The thing in Turkey, you call that a Civil War? They make these things up just to bring down the blame. They say stuff like "Oh they were helping the enemy" or what not. That's the reason it always happens. It happened with the Jews and Hitler, it happened with Saddam's killings, and it happens everywhere and these are just known as "Civil Wars".

No, with the jews its acknowledge (by most of the world anyway) that it was a genocide.
Most of the world does not consider the turkish killing of armenians as genocide, not even israel call its genocide, and i think they would have a good idea of it.

Even with you saying "middle eastern muslims" pakistan and bandladesh are not in the "middle eastern" region. Tough noogies
Just say what you want to say, which is Muslims.
You come in here with
"dont take this the wrong way dudes, but why so much focus by teh mazlems on the genocide in palestine and not the genocide in turkey or pakistan, why do teh mazlems always talks about teh palestine only ??"

No genocides, as acknowledged by the rest of the world, unlike the occupation of palestine which the world DOES recognize.
You want us to start beliving a genocide happened somewhere else, just to distract from the palestinian issue? No thanks, not interested.

GHook93 · Jan 3, 2007, 01:57 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The_Genius

The situation in Palestine is worse than apartheid South Africa. The only logical and plausible solution comes to my mind is an independent Palestinian State. A solution can only be reached through negotiations, not militarily. However, the problem is, Israel is not willing to negotiate with Hamas.

LOL that is the only problem. Maybe the fact that Hamas keeps attacking after the supposely agreed to a cease fire. Maybe the fact that Hamas own bylaws call for Israel destruction. Maybe the fact that ever time Israel gives in (leaves Gaza), Hamas spits in their face. Abbas is a willing and able partner, because he truely wants a Palestinian State and Peace. Hamas wants war, that is what keeps them strong.

Note: I think you need to change your user name it doesn't suit you.

GHook93 · Jan 3, 2007, 01:58 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The_Genius

Well Hamas got a point... Logically speaking, you simply can not go to a place and tell the land owner, "hey man, my great great great great great grandpa lived in this place 2000 years ago. Now I have a right to live here."

How does that sound? Stupid. I know...

Please change your user name it is going to confuse people

The_Genius · Jan 3, 2007, 02:00 pm

Quote:

Quote by: ByaKya

Genius, welcome to the forums! I'm liking your opinions on many things = )

To the OP, in most of the places you are talking about that involves muslims killing muslims, it is simply civil war. Brother killing brother, so it is hard to pick sides in such situations I would suspect.

Armenian genocide was done by turks, they deny it was genocide.

And I'm unaware of muslim genocides, if they are over with and in the past, then I don't see why they would continue talking about it more than a genocide that is happening now in palestine or iraq.

Also you can't lump all muslims together, there are about 1.5 billion of them spread over some 50 states. And the same with arabs, there's 300 some million of them over 23 states. Muslims don't speak with one voice and arabs don't speak with one voice.

But in palestine there is no civil war. It is israelis killing palestinians by a ratio of more than ten to one and injured 100 to one. Israels vicious attacks on palestinians is very one sided, and it is clear who the aggressor is.

But I conclude that you got this question from a zionist site, they love red herrings. I destroyed the question though, so now you'll have to either admit you learned and move on, or find something to continue with this flawed reasoning
I'm betting on the latter = )

Thank you for the compliment....

What you have said is very true... Hamas and Fatah must stop fighting each other and for both Iraq and Palestine, unity amongst Muslims is the main priority.

Disorganization leads to self-destruction...

The_Genius · Jan 3, 2007, 02:03 pm

Quote:

Quote by: GHook93

Please change your user name it is going to confuse people

Why are you worried? Are you peoples' champ or something?

Forthright · Jan 3, 2007, 02:06 pm

Quote:

Quote by: ByaKya

But in palestine there is no civil war. It is israelis killing palestinians by a ratio of more than ten to one and injured 100 to one. Israels vicious attacks on palestinians is very one sided, and it is clear who the aggressor is.

So you wouldn't categorise whats happening right now in the Palestinian Territories between supporters of Fatah and Hamas as "civil war" then? Interesting perspective, one that ignores anything that doesn't fit with your blinkered "world view."

GHook93 · Jan 3, 2007, 02:08 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Dr. Debate

There is a big deal about what's going on in Israel/Palestine, and I understand that it's a horrible thing, but why doesn't the world (especially Arabs and Muslims) ever mention (or in some cases admit) so many things that happened in the Middle East?

For example, because make a huge deal (and I think that they should) about Palestine/Israel, but no one EVER mentions stuff that happened in places like Pakistan or Turkey (referring to Bangladesh Genocide or Armenian/Assyrian Genocides).

Why do a lot of Muslims in the Arab world make a big deal about what happens to them, but not the other way around?

Why don't Muslims and Arabs recognize their own atrocities, and create chaos when Christians or Jews commit crimes? And not just Arabs and Muslims, but even "liberals" that you see in America.

What's the deal? I'm probably incorrect on some of this, and I'm looking to learn. So please give me your opinions on this so I can be educated

P.S. I'm not trying to be biased, I'm against a lot of what America does and Israel, but I just find it odd :confused:

Why don't you hear strong cries for the kurds to receive an independant state. They have been repressed by the Turks, Shiites and Sunnis! Same thing

Dec 30, 2006, 04:15 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Dr. Debate Molten Ash Posts: 40	Genocides in Middle East There is a big deal about what's going on in Israel/Palestine, and I understand that it's a horrible thing, but why doesn't the world (especially Arabs and Muslims) ever mention (or in some cases admit) so many things that happened in the Middle East? For example, because make a huge deal (and I think that they should) about Palestine/Israel, but no one EVER mentions stuff that happened in places like Pakistan or Turkey (referring to Bangladesh Genocide or Armenian/Assyrian Genocides). Why do a lot of Muslims in the Arab world make a big deal about what happens to them, but not the other way around? Why don't Muslims and Arabs recognize their own atrocities, and create chaos when Christians or Jews commit crimes? And not just Arabs and Muslims, but even "liberals" that you see in America. What's the deal? I'm probably incorrect on some of this, and I'm looking to learn. So please give me your opinions on this so I can be educated P.S. I'm not trying to be biased, I'm against a lot of what America does and Israel, but I just find it odd :confused:

Dec 30, 2006, 05:39 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
The_Genius ~Ruthless Debater~ Location: Cape Town, South Africa. Posts: 433	The situation in Palestine is worse than apartheid South Africa. The only logical and plausible solution comes to my mind is an independent Palestinian State. A solution can only be reached through negotiations, not militarily. However, the problem is, Israel is not willing to negotiate with Hamas. www.islamawareness.net

Dec 31, 2006, 02:12 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Dr. Debate Molten Ash Posts: 40	Don't get off topic And btw, the things that happened then are MUCH more serious. Like in Pakistan, 3,000,000 people were killed.... I believe that that deserves recognition.

Dec 31, 2006, 05:48 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
ByaKya BANNED Posts: 1,372	Genius, welcome to the forums! I'm liking your opinions on many things = ) To the OP, in most of the places you are talking about that involves muslims killing muslims, it is simply civil war. Brother killing brother, so it is hard to pick sides in such situations I would suspect. Armenian genocide was done by turks, they deny it was genocide. And I'm unaware of muslim genocides, if they are over with and in the past, then I don't see why they would continue talking about it more than a genocide that is happening now in palestine or iraq. Also you can't lump all muslims together, there are about 1.5 billion of them spread over some 50 states. And the same with arabs, there's 300 some million of them over 23 states. Muslims don't speak with one voice and arabs don't speak with one voice. But in palestine there is no civil war. It is israelis killing palestinians by a ratio of more than ten to one and injured 100 to one. Israels vicious attacks on palestinians is very one sided, and it is clear who the aggressor is. But I conclude that you got this question from a zionist site, they love red herrings. I destroyed the question though, so now you'll have to either admit you learned and move on, or find something to continue with this flawed reasoning I'm betting on the latter = )

Dec 31, 2006, 08:35 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Dr. Debate Molten Ash Posts: 40	Turks killed Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians. More than 1 million died. They deny any genocide whatsoever, and none of them recognize the atrocities. Is it civil war when the Pakistani Army is ordered to kill every Bengal they find...why don't people recognize what happened over 20 years after the whole Israel/Palestine conflict had really started?

Jan 1, 2007, 10:35 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Dr. Debate Molten Ash Posts: 40	Haha I'm not a zionist, I just like to change my point of view to better understand the people that I talk to. Try it. It may have been a Civil War, but were the Bengals ordered to kill every Pakistani that they see, or even try to kill them like the Pakistanis did them? It was a genocide, you can't deny it. It's like, No, not put it on hold, but address that as well. I understand what you're saying, but still these things have not been addressed 1/10th as much as the situation in Israel is being addressed. I agree that it's not happening now and the significance isn't as high, but no one even pays attention to it... Arabs act like they're always the victims, they've got to recognize their atrocities first before pointing fingers at others.

Jan 2, 2007, 11:10 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Dr. Debate Molten Ash Posts: 40	ByaKya, first of all, I should have written just Middle Easterns rather than Arabs, or just Middle Eastern Muslims. These genocides have been happened in the Middle East and around that area, and still get limited recognition. The thing in Turkey, you call that a Civil War? They make these things up just to bring down the blame. They say stuff like "Oh they were helping the enemy" or what not. That's the reason it always happens. It happened with the Jews and Hitler, it happened with Saddam's killings, and it happens everywhere and these are just known as "Civil Wars".