The American Way of War

[Gods_Mercenary]

No, I said that there is no truth from humans, period. We can try and take a swing at it, however.

[Right of Center]

Conservative brainwashing? Conservatives were equal to the culture gradient and still are. What I mean by culture gradient is that conservatives have been in sync with traditional values since the conservative movement started. Liberals broke off of the traditional value in the 60's. It is liberals that had to manipulate, brainwash, and convert Americans into believing their party had the correct philosophy. The liberals were fighting against the culture gradient. Conservatives do not and have never had a need for new voters. What conservatives need to do is to conserve the ones they have.

The American Way of War has been successful numerous times but it wasn't in Vietnam. That can be attributed to one and only political philosophy emanating from the left: Detente. A literal French translation meaning to relax. Many Democrats at the time didn't want to eliminate communism they wanted to stop it from spreading. They didn't want to crush North Vietnam, they wanted to stop North Vietnam from attacking South Vietnam. The Democratic presidents during the Vietnam war did not want to go on an offensive that would have crushed North Vietnam. The result of "holding back" ccaused thousands of American lives and South Vietnamese civilian lives to be killed all for the cost of saving North Vietnamese civilian lives.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Right of Center Conservative brainwashing? Conservatives were equal to the culture gradient and still are. What I mean by culture gradient is that conservatives have been in sync with traditional values since the conservative movement started. Liberals broke off of the traditional value in the 60's. It is liberals that had to manipulate, brainwash, and convert Americans into believing their party had the correct philosophy. The liberals were fighting against the culture gradient. Conservatives do not and have never had a need for new voters. What conservatives need to do is to conserve the ones they have. That explains why there are so few blacks and latinos and other minorities in the republican party? GG The American Way of War has been successful numerous times but it wasn't in Vietnam. That can be attributed to one and only political philosophy emanating from the left: Detente. A literal French translation meaning to relax. Many Democrats at the time didn't want to eliminate communism they wanted to stop it from spreading. They didn't want to crush North Vietnam, they wanted to stop North Vietnam from attacking South Vietnam. The Democratic presidents during the Vietnam war did not want to go on an offensive that would have crushed North Vietnam. The result of "holding back" ccaused thousands of American lives and South Vietnamese civilian lives to be killed all for the cost of saving North Vietnamese civilian lives.

What about Korea? What about afghanistan? What about Iraq? Why did we fail there?

Yes, if only we stayed in vietnam for another 240 years, we would have won damnit !.
If we were STILL in vietnam, we would STILL be hearing about that "light at the end of the tunnel" we would STILL be "turning the corner" in vietnam, we would STILL have the north vietnamese on the ropes. Dont be ridiculous, the US hasnt won any war against any "us state" sized country since ww2 for good reasons.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Right of Center Conservative brainwashing? Conservatives were equal to the culture gradient and still are. What I mean by culture gradient is that conservatives have been in sync with traditional values since the conservative movement started.

Wait a minute, let me get this straight... You're claiming that bush and his cronies are "in sync with traditional values"?? One only needs to look at this doofus's record to debunk that claim. Soaring deficits, huge growth in the size of the federal government, more intrusion into the lives of citizens, enormous growth of the national debt, an increasingly unpopular war after an all but unilateral invasion of a sovereign nation, the list goes on. These are "traditional values"?? If the subject is conservative brainwashing, your statement is proof enough that it's real.

Quote by: Right of Center It is liberals that had to manipulate, brainwash, and convert Americans into believing their party had the correct philosophy.

Oh yeah, tell us about the WMD's. And add lies to your list.

Quote by: Right of Center Conservatives do not and have never had a need for new voters. What conservatives need to do is to conserve the ones they have.

I believe that the last mid-term elections are an indication otherwise.

[Osborn F Enready]

The American way of war has always been tainted by the establishments gravitation toward empire, which has more than doubled since the 156 year of bi-partisan "manipulation" has been secured by the mutual parties.

[xyzer]

I just ran across this piece of unadulterated crap and can only say...
The authors original premise if flawed, thus all that ensues is crap!
The war and invasion of Iraq was a lightningly quick success with minimal casualties on both sides...thanks to the technology and training of the US forces involved!
The author opines...illogically ...that it wasn't? Nonsense!...then he

But to do so, national defense spending, which had been stable in the 1990s, increased from $294 billion in 2000 to $536 billion in 2006, and as a percentage of the GNP it grew 37 percent from 2000 to 2006.

The reason that military spending increased after 2000 was because throughout the reinventing government years of the Clinton administration it fell way behind, Bugets were reduced dramatically while mission assignments rose? Rumsfeld/Bush inherited a military that needed rebuilding as 9/11 and other events showed!

Since then its "readiness" in terms of available troops and equipment has only fallen precipitously. And while Rumsfeld made the Army his enemy, even the Air Force now has to cut manpower to raise funds for new equipment.

More fiction based probably on the author confusing authorized strength levels and the various global missions of our armed forces. Readiness has not suffered and the only strength problems involve the need for repetitive tours in Iraq. Plus the politically correct version of the need for more troops in Iraq which is IMNSHO uncalled for. The best solution is a phased pull out incrementally turning over control to the duly authorized Iraqi government!
The basic flaw with this critical nonsense is that it assumes that Rumsfeld was a policy creator rather than an administrator assigned to manage the military establishment? He is not a tactician nor is he more than a policy advisor...reporting on military readiness, status and budget complaince needs. It suggests, unrealistically, that he is an important contributer and strategist in the whole Iraq venture? Nonsense. This fallacy substantiated with allusions to his past relationships with Cheney and his previous service as Sec Def some years back. That transcends reality and flaws the authors logic!

While the Iraq venture cannot be realistically labelled a failure because it isn't over yet. It isn't over because an impatient nation, inspired and propagandized by a leftist political establishment and its sensationalizing press servants has so distorted the campaign as to hinder it. Our public expect closure in the instant closure they are so familair with from TV sagas and movies? When they don't get it the critical political and press generated flames start consuming logic?
As we see we now have inexpert 'blue ribbon' committees composed of politicians prescribing more troops to do police work that can be done by the Iraqi forces? A small group of international terrorists are allowed to distort reality...Can we expect to stay and oversee things until the last angry shot is fired or IED explodes? I don't think so...let the Iraqi take over and get out!
Mission accomplished..handholding un necessary!

[Osborn F Enready]

You can NEVER win a war against revolution, if the people embrace the cause of the revolt.

This is why we will never win in Iraq.

We have given them all the ammo they need to fuel the revolution for years and decades to come.

All you really do is change the tactics of your aggressors, and the more tactics you remove, the more brutal and inhuman the attacks become.

[GHook93]

Quote by: ByaKya Not in the least. japan wanted to surrender, they only were asking that their emperor be spared, we said no, bombed them, and then spared him anyway. well will call this "exhibit A"

This comment proves you know nothing about the topic. The Japanese at the time did not believe in surrender. They believed it fighting until the last soldier was killed.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Well, he's provided some evidence to the contrary.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready You can NEVER win a war against revolution, if the people embrace the cause of the revolt. This is why we will never win in Iraq. We have given them all the ammo they need to fuel the revolution for years and decades to come. All you really do is change the tactics of your aggressors, and the more tactics you remove, the more brutal and inhuman the attacks become.

All empires have won against revolutions, they just were willing to burn people alive and wipe out entire nations, if we aren't willing to do that (not that we should) we won't, you're right.

[Osborn F Enready]

The fact that there is not peace now, is a tribute to the notion that one cannot win against revolution.

How big shall our jails grow?
Can the majority afford to patrol the jails that will eventually make them the minority?

I stand by my statement.

[Gods_Mercenary]

If you eliminate the revolution (and the ideas it stands for), no more revolution, you ever read orwell?

[Osborn F Enready]

I have, what in particular?

1984?

It is impossible to erase the idea of liberty, though they are trying very hard right now to do just that, in governments all around the world.

We see as more troops are mobilized, more resistance is mounted. The more laws passed, the more laws broken.

Unless we learn from history that all systems must respect individual rights, I think we are doomed to fail from our own hands, since the weapons of war now clearly hold the power to do just that, by removing us from the natural equation.

[Gods_Mercenary]

1984 is my favorite, but nothing in particular.

The Romans and many other empires had held on to power by not erasing ideas, but erasing people. The fear of death is a strong motivator, especially when that death involves being nailed to a tree trunk and left to die.

These Empires, once they got powerful enough, were invulnerable to internal rebellion, only outside forces (think huns) caused them to collapse or the failings of the ruling class.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary 1984 is my favorite, but nothing in particular. The Romans and many other empires had held on to power by not erasing ideas, but erasing people. The fear of death is a strong motivator, especially when that death involves being nailed to a tree trunk and left to die. These Empires, once they got powerful enough, were invulnerable to internal rebellion, only outside forces (think huns) caused them to collapse or the failings of the ruling class.

ROFL ! The roman empire fell largely because of INTERNAL conflict!
The outside forces were simply the nail in the coffin!
and how do you classify "ruling classes" as OUTSIDE forces?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Not, a revolution of the common man though, but fighting for power among the ruling class, an important distinction. I don't classify ruling classes as outside forces, I define them as not a liberating revolution, which is what Osborn is talking about.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Not, a revolution of the common man though, but fighting for power among the ruling class, an important distinction.

a distinction yes, but nonethelss clearly an internal problem.
hence the "empires are invulnerable to internal conflict" goes out the window

[Gods_Mercenary]

Fine, I was unspecific on that, invulnerable to a revolution of the common man is more like it.

[Right of Center]

Quote by: Zeebadee Wait a minute, let me get this straight...

...blah, blah, blah.

Open your eyes darling dearest. I was not only talking about the last 2 years of this country's existence. Open your eyes to a broader perspective. I specifically mentioned the 60's as the time when liberals began brainwashing. It was at this time that feminism sky-rocketed, abortion became more prevalent, homosexuals were allowed to "express" themselves, drug use increased, etc. Liberals basically condoned this behavior. In fact, they supported it. Traditional values remained in the conservative sector. At the time many more Americans were traditional compared to the newly found "radicals" (I use the term loosely). Because the liberals were fighting the "culture gradient", the liberals had to brainwash in order to take their philosophy and ideas to take hold. The conservatives don't really create any new moral behavior or moral standards, they try to conserve the ones already in place. Conservatives try to conserve everything they hold to be valid. It is absurd to believe that conservatives have brainwashed the US citizens when most of the US citizens in the last century have been traditionalists which conservatives try to conserve.

[Right of Center]

Quote by: ByaKya What about Korea? What about afghanistan? What about Iraq? Why did we fail there? Yes, if only we stayed in vietnam for another 240 years, we would have won damnit !. If we were STILL in vietnam, we would STILL be hearing about that "light at the end of the tunnel" we would STILL be "turning the corner" in vietnam, we would STILL have the north vietnamese on the ropes. Dont be ridiculous, the US hasnt won any war against any "us state" sized country since ww2 for good reasons.

I haven't been paying attention to your posts ByaKya. What are your "good reasons" why the US "hasn't won any war against any "us state" sized country since ww2" I stated the fact that it was democrats idea of containment and detente but all you have to say is irrational assertions with no evidence.

Korea was a wonderful example of the dominant left-wing idea of victory. Throughout the 20th century up until Reagan, the left-wing rooted idea that the USSR could not be defeated and therefore could only be resisted dominated foreign policy. Truman began the Korean War. However I don't think you can call the Korean War a failure or a victory. The communists were held at the 38th parallel.

Afghanistan and Iraq both show signs of hope and of failure. While the American Way of War has been shown to be weak against cowardly insurgents and guerillas, the American Way of War has led to several key victories.

So full of anger...It's a shame. Oh well. I guess A.C. was right..."People don't get angry about lies, they get angry about the truth."