There are 40 million Americans uninsured...

[Mr.Vicchio]

Whose fault is this?

Whose responsible for fixing this?

What is the solution in your opinion?

[PatrickHenry]

Health or life or auto or liability?

[Mia]

I bet he's talking about health. Many people choose not to have it. They think they don't need it, and refuse to take on the responsibility of protecting themselves if something huge that can't be paid for happens.

That makes me mad! I'd rather buy more clothes than pay for my health insurance, but I don't want to rely on the state if something happens to me.

I don't have dependants, which is the normal reason for life insurance, but I carry just enough to pay for my funeral so as not to burden my family financially on top of losing me (yes, there are SOME people who like me!)

Then there are people who can barely afford to eat and these are the only people I exempt from responsibility of carrying it. I am glad the state or county or what have you is there for them and I don't mind my tax dollars funding it.

But why should a basic amount not be required to carry like auto insurance is?

Why should tax dollars go to people who are irresponsible rather than needy?

I knew one woman with two kids who "couldn't afford it" But she drove a BMW!

[Dieval]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr.Vicchio,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Whose fault is this?[/b]

It's no ones fault. Everyone is responsible for themselves(well, except for kids, then their parents are responsible)

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,@ Whose responsible for fixing this?

No one. It's up to the individual(or parents) to take care of themselves.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Vicchio,

What is the solution in your opinion?[/quote]
Get off your ass and find a job that
A)you make enough money to pay for it yourself, or
B)has benifits.

[Mr.Vicchio]

My answers?

1. Whose fault? I think its a multilayered issue.

A: The Healthcare industry costs too much, which leads to higher medical insurance costs, which leads to greater expenses on the employers to cover this. Thus it is partly the medical industrys fault for such high costs.

B: The amount of, and cost of, malpractice and other lawsuits against the medical industry has been the number one cause of sky rocketing costs in health care. Just look at the number of states that have critical shortages of doctors in certain specialities due to the high risk of being sued.

C: Illegal immigrant medical coverage. I know this only effects mainly the south and California, but hospitals eat the cost of treating illegals cause no one is going to compensate them for the treatement they give in emergency rooms... and a LOT of illegals use the ER for any ailement cause they can't be denied....

2. Responsibility? Again, there is no single answer, instead its multi-layered.

A: Congress MUST pass serious, not kidding tort reform to reign in the malpractice lawsuit lottery. In California, I DO believe the 9th circuit just said yes, Cali's new law allowing lawyers that knowingly bring frivilous lawsuits to court can be counter sued, punished and the like. Thats one area, the other is to limit the jackpot awards... seriously. When someone wins 7 figure awards, that just drives the cost of medical coverage for the rest of us.

B: IN ADDITION to the above mention tort reform, they also need to make sure that patients are protected. How? Make sure doc's found in guilty of malpractice that maims/kills a patient loses thier liscence to practice medicine. Also Doctors found say.. drunk operating.. go to jail. Protect the public from high costs of stupid lawsuits and mega jackpot awards while still holding docs accountable is a start. remember medicine isn't perfect... shit still happens.


3. Solution? See 2 for part of this but one more thing....

Tie any tort reform, malpractice costs protection with a law FORCING both the medical system, and insurance companies to lower thier costs, significantly. One of the big factors of high costs in medicine are lawsuits agains hospitals because 1 doc made a mistake. The HOSPITAL gets sued for millions... thats crap. Unless the Doctor was shown to have a history bad judgement, and the hospital is shown to know this and done nothing... then they shouldn't be sued. Thats just lawyers looking for money.


Businesses are out there to make money. They aren't there to provide for people. Sorry I just don't believe that a company OWES an employeee anything more then a steady paycheck for their work, and safe working enviroment. Comapnies that CHOOSE to spend more on their employees increase thier ability to hire the better, smarter employees. Thus I say let the job market run its course. IF company A provides insurance, and company B wont, for the same job, same pay, Comapny A is gonna land the better employees, thus increasing work productivity, profits and the like.

I would though support tax breaks to companies that provided medical coverage, again an incentive to the company but the government has a really bad bad habit of stepping in and screwing things up.

[Pooeypants]

Surely the American treasury can divert a small percentage of the defence budget to form a NHS...

[Mr.Vicchio]

Surely you have no clue the cost of that do you.

Surely you haven't researched other countries with a NHS.

Surely if you had a clue you would realize how ignorant such an idea is.

[Mia]

Mr. V.,

Why are you in attack mode? NHS is a bad idea. I like mine of personal responsibility better. But was there a need ot strike over that?

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, My answers?

Your answers, as usual, are all hot air, without supporting detail. What is it about the debate format that is so hard to understand? You know how it works.

But Nooo. You post a topic, don't even specify what type of insurance you mean, leave the forum to speculate on your intentions, then come back with a post that is 100% opinion. Where do you get your figures? What neocon rant site did you pull this dreck off of?

Come on Vicchio, you know the drill. SOURCES

[Gorgo]

Yeah, V. How much would it cost compared to what it costs us to make sure the wealthy get wealthier, and the poor get poorer?

Whose fault is it? It's no one's fault, but we're all better off when we're all better off.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Originally posted by Mia, Mr. V., Why are you in attack mode? NHS is a bad idea. I like mine of personal responsibility better. But was there a need ot strike over that?

I think Mia, that you don't quite understand, nothing drives me nutz, nothing angers me, nothing fires me up more then comments like "Just take a litle out of the defense budget to cover NHS"

The level of... sheer ignorance to make such a statement is astrounding. Not stupidity, not dumb, ignorance of the facts.

Do you know what constitutes 1/7th the US economy? I think you do, thus for somone to make a statement like that... wow people need to atelast go understand the issues, do some research, BASIC research before speaking. I don't CARE if someone disagrees with me, its the level and the why that matters. If you have a thoughtful, intelligent position, no matter how... opposed I am ot your ideas. I can handle it. But truly unlearned positions grate on me something fierce.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PatrickHenry,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Vicchio, My answers?

Your answers, as usual, are all hot air, without supporting detail. What is it about the debate format that is so hard to understand? You know how it works.

But Nooo. You post a topic, don't even specify what type of insurance you mean, leave the forum to speculate on your intentions, then come back with a post that is 100% opinion. Where do you get your figures? What neocon rant site did you pull this dreck off of?

Come on Vicchio, you know the drill. SOURCES[/b][/quote]

Okay, yes I saw the Issue Ad about the "national Day of HEalth Care and made this post.

Sure, I SHOULD have mentioned that.

But...

You as usual, slam and attack me... for my opinions! No sources indeed. What do I need to post source for what???

How about you tell me what you need a source for and mybe I will post that for you mmmkay? Perhaps a Just for PH set of footnotes to each of my posts. Though, I am sure you would still refuse to address the posts and find another techinacality to attack instead of whats posted. Oh and I will be playing your game from now on.

[Gorgo]

What would it cost Mr. V?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Gorgo, the health care industry is a full1/7th of the US economy. You figure it out.

[Gorgo]

That doesn't answer the question. What would universal health care cost, over and above (or below) what that costs now?

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, Gorgo, the health care industry is a full1/7th of the US economy. You figure it out.

[dotcoma]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, I think Mia, that you don't quite understand, nothing drives me nutz, nothing angers me, nothing fires me up more then comments like "Just take a litle out of the defense budget to cover NHS" The level of... sheer ignorance to make such a statement is astrounding. Not stupidity, not dumb, ignorance of the facts. Do you know what constitutes 1/7th the US economy? I think you do, thus for somone to make a statement like that... wow people need to atelast go understand the issues, do some research, BASIC research before speaking. I don't CARE if someone disagrees with me, its the level and the why that matters. If you have a thoughtful, intelligent position, no matter how... opposed I am ot your ideas. I can handle it. But truly unlearned positions grate on me something fierce.

Cool your jets bro. The defense budget is a crock. It's not "sheer ignorance" to suggest we're being ripped off. The crusader missle (for one, part of the 48 billion dollar increase) is a PIECE OF SHIT. The Pentagon DIDN'T WANT THEM. Yet, Bush's Daddy's getting $100,000 to give speeches to industry insiders who are getting pieces of that 48 billion. COME ON, OPEN YOUR EYES... I'm not suggesting it cover NHS. Let the people keep it. It's belongs to them. And then work to make healthcare AFFORDABLE and keep people from profiting from $500 toilet seats that ultimately the consumer pays for.

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, Okay, yes I saw the Issue Ad about the "national Day of HEalth Care and made this post. Sure, I SHOULD have mentioned that. But... You as usual, slam and attack me... for my opinions! No sources indeed. What do I need to post source for what??? How about you tell me what you need a source for and mybe I will post that for you mmmkay? Perhaps a Just for PH set of footnotes to each of my posts. Though, I am sure you would still refuse to address the posts and find another techinacality to attack instead of whats posted. Oh and I will be playing your game from now on.

Thank you, Mr Vicchio. Sorry I got carried away with the personal stuff. I'm kind of an old grouch...

After all, I agree with you that paying for health care should be a person's own responsibility. My problem with the US system is that the Feds want to tax the citizens like socialism and provide services like the monopoly capitalists they are. They should either get out or get in the socialism slime bucket. The taxes without the services is an outrage.

See, I don't always attack you.

It is worthwhile seeing a debater's sources, though. If you read the posts after your initial, some were thinkin' auto insurance :confused:

And as for playin' my game: In the words of the illustrious CinC: "Bring 'em on!"

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, Surely you have no clue the cost of that do you. Surely you haven't researched other countries with a NHS. Surely if you had a clue you would realize how ignorant such an idea is.

Well I live in the UK, we have an NHS and we're still prospering...so your point is?

[Mia]

But where do people inthe UK go when they need special types of surgery and treatment?

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Mia, But where do people in the UK go when they need special types of surgery and treatment?

For the middle class they'd go private and to a lesser extent, the normal working class did too until recently where the NHS waiting list has plummeted so I guess the Labour party got something right this time.

Here's on article about the recent improvement.
I regard the health others to be more important than ridiculous defence projects, we've all got a bit of responsibility for our fellow neighbour in our society. But I'm not advocating it should happen in US (was kidding earlier), I mean like you'd be branded a Red if you show concern for your fellow (wo)man. :rolleyes: