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underbear1 · Oct 29, 2006, 01:36 am

firedoglake: Jean Full of Schmidt

"The fiery, emotional debate climaxed when Rep. Jean Schmidt, R-Ohio, the most junior member of the House, told of a phone call she received from a Marine colonel.

"He asked me to send Congress a message - stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message - that cowards cut and run, Marines never do," Schmidt said."

COWARDS!

The Architect · Oct 29, 2006, 10:37 am

She is right, cowards cut and run and we cant do that at this point we are to far in the hole.

**Jack** · Oct 29, 2006, 10:42 am

Quote:

we cant do that at this point we are to far in the hole.

I'm sure your reasoning is a great comfort to the families of our dead soldiers. If we called it a stratigic withdrawl would it be more acceptable to the Bush supporters?

bishop · Oct 29, 2006, 11:17 am

the thing that seems lost on the "stay the course" crowd is that an overwhelming majority of the iraqi people support attacks against our troops..

i don't know what keeping our troops (our cannon fodder) in iraq is going to accomplish aside from getting more of them killed and pissing billions more of taxpayer dollars down the drain... it hasn't worked for the past several years, why would it suddenly work now?

grandpa · Oct 29, 2006, 02:03 pm

Quote:

Quote by: bishop

the thing that seems lost on the "stay the course"
crowd is that an overwhelming majority of the iraqi people
support attacks against our troops..
i don't know what keeping our troops (our cannon fodder)
in iraq is going to accomplish aside from getting more
of them killed and pissing billions more of taxpayer dollars
down the drain...

Please let me know if you learn an answer, because I'm with you on this one.

Grandpa h.

bishop · Oct 29, 2006, 02:11 pm

to be able to answer it, you'd have to step into the twilight zone where up = down and mission accomplished = quagmire.

underbear1 · Oct 29, 2006, 07:50 pm

Hypocolapse Now,
Anyone who offered any idea about the Iraq War EXCEPT Bush's "STAY THE COURSE" was branded a coward, defeatist, terrorist sympathizer, Defeatocrat, traitor...........well don't think Bush and Cheney and Snow can just drop that little slogan and not pay a price...........I'd say Both Houses of Congress is that price.

The Bacon Guy · Oct 29, 2006, 08:19 pm

Cowards cut and run? Bull. To follow a blatantly wrong course of action just for the sake of not admitting to being wrong is cowardly. To evaluate a situation, realise when you are facing a losing battle and act accordingly is sensible.

I really can't be bothered debating the various issues with the war in Iraq, but it is clear to me that this "cowards cut and run" approach is nothing more than a soundbite.

bishop · Oct 29, 2006, 09:29 pm

Quote:

Quote by: captain

Cowards cut and run? Bull. To follow a blatantly wrong course of action just for the sake of not admitting to being wrong is cowardly. To evaluate a situation, realise when you are facing a losing battle and act accordingly is sensible.

or, to stubbornly refuse a change in policy because it could be politically embarassing is definitely an act of cowardice.

grandpa · Oct 29, 2006, 10:35 pm

Quote:

Quote by: bishop

or, to stubbornly refuse a change in policy because it could be politically embarassing is definitely an act of cowardice.

Especially when you're not the one getting shot at. Beyond that, it's just as cowardly to accept the status quo.

Grandpa h.

Fonceai · Oct 29, 2006, 10:50 pm

Quote:

Quote by: grandpa

Especially when you're not the one getting shot at.

Nothing like hearing about policy on television and knowing your ass is going to be in the Middle East for a year.

It's always easy to send other people to die. Those in the military should be ones who vote to go to war. Ironically, you would find that most wars would never happen.

bishop · Oct 29, 2006, 11:05 pm

at a minimum, all the military guys were very hesitant to enter into this particular war... in the administration, their concerns were voiced, although heavily muted, by colin powell.. none of the generals seem to respect rumsfeld, and i doubt any of them had a shred of respect for wolfowitz.

Fonceai · Oct 29, 2006, 11:10 pm

Someone once told me that the most warmongering generals you hear about are Air Force or Navy (admirals). They don't have to put their feet on the ground where the bullets are.

Nothing like a 4-star general who flies an F-16 over a country with no decent Anti-Air coverage making $20,000+ a month telling us it's our responsibility.

I was physically restrained while yelling, "You make as much in a month as I make in a year, so you and your sense of duty can suck my dick."

All he hear was the first part, before the comma.

It really sucks these days that most of these guys came in at the tailend of the 70's, if not early 80's, and by the time real armed conflict started they were too high ranking to participate.

grandpa · Oct 29, 2006, 11:15 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Fonceai

Nothing like hearing about policy on television and knowing your
ass is going to be in the Middle East for
a year.
It's always easy to send other people to die.
Those in the military should be ones who vote to
go to war.
Ironically, you would find that most wars would never happen.

This war was conducted in typical fashion-- the so-called "intelligence" and facts were being fixed.
But we're not supposed to care about that, even still...or the amazing coincidence we're attacking Middle Eastern oil countries.

Grandpa h.

Acebass · Oct 29, 2006, 11:18 pm

Hard headed and stupid are not values I look for in a President...
To realize you screwed up and cut your loses is something this President doesn't comprehend...
Mr. President, it's time to go...

Fonceai · Oct 30, 2006, 08:18 am

@grandpa

The intelligence to go in initially was legitimate.

People blame the U.N. for not letting us get there fast enough.

In reality, the problem is that Bush wanted to be slick secret squirrel about cooperating with the U.N. who would have been more than happy to let us go over there.

Instead, we took so freaking long the intelligence was outdated, WMDs disappeared, and the enemy entrenched themselves.

All because we didn't want to expose information, or some such bullshit.

And now Americans are dying for the pride of a group of politicians.

amana1man · Oct 30, 2006, 08:36 am

To all you brave people please read a song. Type in the name WAR PIGS in to your search and read it. The coward is Bush and Cheney and our warmongering Congress, Senate and generals. Like a earler post said they don't have to put their feet on the ground where the bullets are.

GHook93 · Oct 30, 2006, 01:27 pm

Quote:

Quote by: bishop

the thing that seems lost on the "stay the course" crowd is that an overwhelming majority of the iraqi people support attacks against our troops..

I am for a pull of the troops or at the very least a large scale down. BUT
How the fuck do you know this? Did you do a personal poll of all the Iraqi people. Blind generalization don't work for either side - the pro or con war effort. I heard the same reverse assumption made by the pro-war side on Bill Maher - "The Iraqi people generally are grateful to the Americans and want to move towards democracy, seen by opinion polls!" :rolleyes:

underbear1 · Oct 30, 2006, 01:55 pm

They have polled the Iraqi people, 75% want US forces OUT.
60% think it's justified to kill US forces.

This poll is probably skewed, because the people in Iraq who are dead, or fled to neighboring countries (as anyone with a 1000 dollars (over 300,000 have fled), weren't asked.

Fonceai · Oct 30, 2006, 03:20 pm

Not only how many have been polled...

But were those polls "blind"?

Would someone have been shot if it was found out they said the U.S. should stay?

Oct 29, 2006, 01:36 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	STAY THE COURSE....unless you're a coward? firedoglake: Jean Full of Schmidt "The fiery, emotional debate climaxed when Rep. Jean Schmidt, R-Ohio, the most junior member of the House, told of a phone call she received from a Marine colonel. "He asked me to send Congress a message - stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message - that cowards cut and run, Marines never do," Schmidt said." COWARDS!

Oct 29, 2006, 11:17 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	the thing that seems lost on the "stay the course" crowd is that an overwhelming majority of the iraqi people support attacks against our troops.. i don't know what keeping our troops (our cannon fodder) in iraq is going to accomplish aside from getting more of them killed and pissing billions more of taxpayer dollars down the drain... it hasn't worked for the past several years, why would it suddenly work now? hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Oct 29, 2006, 02:11 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	to be able to answer it, you'd have to step into the twilight zone where up = down and mission accomplished = quagmire. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Oct 29, 2006, 11:05 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	at a minimum, all the military guys were very hesitant to enter into this particular war... in the administration, their concerns were voiced, although heavily muted, by colin powell.. none of the generals seem to respect rumsfeld, and i doubt any of them had a shred of respect for wolfowitz. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Oct 29, 2006, 11:18 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Acebass Necromancer Location: Louisville Ky Posts: 95	Hard headed and stupid are not values I look for in a President... To realize you screwed up and cut your loses is something this President doesn't comprehend... Mr. President, it's time to go... Liberal!..nuff said!

Oct 29, 2006, 10:37 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
The Architect Agnostic, Cynic Location: New York Posts: 285	She is right, cowards cut and run and we cant do that at this point we are to far in the hole.

Oct 29, 2006, 07:50 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	Hypocolapse Now, Anyone who offered any idea about the Iraq War EXCEPT Bush's "STAY THE COURSE" was branded a coward, defeatist, terrorist sympathizer, Defeatocrat, traitor...........well don't think Bush and Cheney and Snow can just drop that little slogan and not pay a price...........I'd say Both Houses of Congress is that price.

Oct 29, 2006, 08:19 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
The Bacon Guy Away Location: Scotland, Central Lowlands Posts: 3,191	Cowards cut and run? Bull. To follow a blatantly wrong course of action just for the sake of not admitting to being wrong is cowardly. To evaluate a situation, realise when you are facing a losing battle and act accordingly is sensible. I really can't be bothered debating the various issues with the war in Iraq, but it is clear to me that this "cowards cut and run" approach is nothing more than a soundbite.

Oct 29, 2006, 11:10 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	Someone once told me that the most warmongering generals you hear about are Air Force or Navy (admirals). They don't have to put their feet on the ground where the bullets are. Nothing like a 4-star general who flies an F-16 over a country with no decent Anti-Air coverage making $20,000+ a month telling us it's our responsibility. I was physically restrained while yelling, "You make as much in a month as I make in a year, so you and your sense of duty can suck my dick." All he hear was the first part, before the comma. It really sucks these days that most of these guys came in at the tailend of the 70's, if not early 80's, and by the time real armed conflict started they were too high ranking to participate.

Oct 30, 2006, 08:18 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	@grandpa The intelligence to go in initially was legitimate. People blame the U.N. for not letting us get there fast enough. In reality, the problem is that Bush wanted to be slick secret squirrel about cooperating with the U.N. who would have been more than happy to let us go over there. Instead, we took so freaking long the intelligence was outdated, WMDs disappeared, and the enemy entrenched themselves. All because we didn't want to expose information, or some such bullshit. And now Americans are dying for the pride of a group of politicians.

Oct 30, 2006, 08:36 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
amana1man country guy Location: Victor Iowa in town Posts: 117	To all you brave people please read a song. Type in the name WAR PIGS in to your search and read it. The coward is Bush and Cheney and our warmongering Congress, Senate and generals. Like a earler post said they don't have to put their feet on the ground where the bullets are.

Oct 30, 2006, 01:55 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	They have polled the Iraqi people, 75% want US forces OUT. 60% think it's justified to kill US forces. This poll is probably skewed, because the people in Iraq who are dead, or fled to neighboring countries (as anyone with a 1000 dollars (over 300,000 have fled), weren't asked.

Oct 30, 2006, 03:20 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	Not only how many have been polled... But were those polls "blind"? Would someone have been shot if it was found out they said the U.S. should stay?