President Bush Signs Un-American Military Commissions Act

[Mia]

"The president can now - with the approval of Congress - indefinitely hold people without charge, take away protections against horrific abuse, put people on trial based on hearsay evidence, authorize trials that can sentence people to death based on testimony literally beaten out of witnesses, and slam shut the courthouse door for habeas petitions. Nothing could be further from the American values we all hold in our hearts than the Military Commissions Act."

When I could see that Bush would be elected again, I knew America would cease to be America. Here is further proof.

American Civil Liberties Union : President Bush Signs Un-American Military Commissions Act, ACLU Says New Law Undermines Due Process and the Rule of Law

Did anyone catch the awesome rant against this act and Bush on MSNBC?

[JohnMK]

Do you mean Keith Olbermann?

The death of habeas corpus - Countdown with Keith Olbermann - MSNBC.com

[Mia]

Yes.

[RickSp]

Interesting commentary on the irresponsilbity and hypocrisy of Congress when it passes bills that the Congressmen know is unconstitutional and that the the Congressmen expect to be overturend by the Supreme Court.

Pass the Buck - When Congress passes unconstitutional laws

The language of addiction has become the catchall excuse for bad personal behavior of every sort, but it's worth invoking in one more context: the constitutional one. Please do forgive the United States Congress its atrocious behavior last week. It's not a bad institution, per se. It's merely addicted to judicial review. Last week, we watched as several senators voted for a bill redefining the treatment, detention, and trials of enemy combatants, even as they expressed doubts as to its constitutionality. The bill setting up military tribunals for enemy combatants, among other constitutional infirmities, contains a provision stripping courts of their power to review the constitutionality of the detentions. This provision, which suspends the writ of habeas corpus for current and future detainees, was contested by a number of senators, but the amendment that sought to excise it from the final bill failed by a vote of 51-49. Before that amendment was rejected, Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., chairman of the Senate judiciary committee, announced, "I'm not going to support a bill that's blatantly unconstitutional ... that suspends a right that goes back to [the Magna Carta in] 1215." He added, "I'd be willing, in the interest of party loyalty, to turn the clock back 500 years, but 800 years goes too far." Specter's justification for then voting for a bill he deemed unconstitutional? "Congress could have done it right and didn't, but the next line of defense is the court, and I think the court will clean it up." There is some irony in this congressional willingness to see the courts as some kind of constitutional chambermaid—as an entity that exists to clean up after Congress smashes up the room. It is especially ironic when it's articulated by members of Congress who like to invoke judicial restraint as a constitutional value. But it is beyond ironic, and approaching parody, when Congress asks the court to clean up a bill it knows to be unconstitutional, when the bill itself includes a court-stripping provision. Criticizing the court for overturning the laws passed by Congress—as Specter did repeatedly during the John Roberts and Samuel Alito hearings—is fair, so long as one is willing to defend one's own interpretation of the Constitution when one gets a chance to assert it. But simultaneously crying "judicial activism" as you rely on the courts for political cover when you're too timid to defy the electorate—or your president—is hypocritical.

[Fonceai]

If Bush somehow manages to stay in office for anything past his term, I'm leaving the country.

Nothing this Act could do could stop me. Gotta love being in a state that borders two very friendly Canadian provinces and one Great Lake.

[Mia]

It was eerie listening to Mr. Olbermann last night, and reading The Dunnean's exhortation for us to leave while we can - I was saying these things last year.

But Mr. Olbermann listed off all the times Americans have been threatened by their Presidents before, and we have gotten through it, and America remained mostly America.

This one is pretty scary. He said (paraphrased) 'You, as an American Citizen, can be declared an enemy combatant and shipped off somewhere, anywhere.

If you are picked up, but are not an enemy combatant, you will not be a afforded a trial, so how are you going to prove it?'

This is one of the outcomes many of us predicted as a result of the Patriot Act, few would listen. And here we are.

One of our most essential rights has been taken away, and I hear....nothing! This is a frightening development.

Oops - does this make me an enemy combatant? I hope not - I have a strict diet, and I bruise easily. I can't go to be detained and beaten until I admit guilt and then finally get an attorney.

BEATEN UNTIL I ADMIT GUILT - is this a third world country? Is this Orwellian times finally come to full fruition?

Oh, well. This is what we have to do to fight terror - move along folks, nothing to see here.

[Fonceai]

@Mia

Maybe people were listening when you said it, you just weren't saying it to the right people?

[Mia]

Oh, in here we had the majority stating the Patriot Act was no big deal - it wouldn't affect OUR rights.....and then, they came for me.

[Osborn F Enready]

I couldn't agree more.

They are coming for you, for me, and for anyone that can labor for their profit.

American Imperialism is here folks, now is the time for revolt.

How long can you make excuses?!?!

[GHook93]

Quote by: Mia When I could see that Bush would be elected again, I knew America would cease to be America. Here is further proof. American Civil Liberties Union : President Bush Signs Un-American Military Commissions Act, ACLU Says New Law Undermines Due Process and the Rule of Law Did anyone catch the awesome rant against this act and Bush on MSNBC?

We as American citizens are protected from this! The Bill of Rights and the Constitution were enacted to protect AMERICAN CITIZEN'S RIGHTS. Not to protect foreign nationals or in many cases terrorist. Like it or not we are at war. If Bush and the Congress are taking rights away from foreign nationals and again in many cases murders, then boo hoo. I applaud these steps. First right move Bush has done.

Get arrested in the middle east and see how it compares. These regulations are child's play compared to it.

The Extreme Liberals (ACLU) are just as dangerous as the Extreme Conservative.

[xyzer]

GHook..well said! The idea that enemy who has sworn to kill us is to be afforded civil rights nauseates me! The idea that wars are to be fought with civilian societies safeguards afforded combatants amazes me.
Scenario..Our marines capture a guy who has been shooting at them..advise him of his rights to a lawyer, and to not say anything that may incriminate him, then take him to a judge and give him a chance to make bail rather than be put in jail above all allow him to obtain a writ of Habeas Corpus so that we have to try him in a short period or let him go?????...Wow!

[RickSp]

Quote by: GHook93 We as American citizens are protected from this! The Bill of Rights and the Constitution were enacted to protect AMERICAN CITIZEN'S RIGHTS. Not to protect foreign nationals or in many cases terrorist. Like it or not we are at war. If Bush and the Congress are taking rights away from foreign nationals and again in many cases murders, then boo hoo. I applaud these steps. First right move Bush has done.

Sure the Constitution protects American rights. These measures will never be applied to Americans, only foreign terrorists. Yah sure. Tell it Jose Padillo.

This law strips Americans and foreigners alike of basic rights. Do you think you will be spared? Not likely. The government already claims the right to track the books you read, to tap your phone and monitor your e-mails. Now habaes corpus has been effectively abolished.

People who applaud the trashing of the Consititioon make me sick.

[xyzer]

Hey Rick...

Sure the Constitution protects American rights. These measures will never be applied to Americans, only foreign terrorists. Yah sure. Tell it Jose Padillo

Padillio is an American citizen! Born in Brooklyn! Converted to Islam!
Is it wrong to try him for plotting to kill his fellow citizens? Plotting against his own country?
More Camel Hockey from the left!

[PatrickHenry]

I think the nation has polarized into those who can see and those who are blind as bats to the gradual decline of freedom. What does it take to wake people up?

Does your own family have to be abused before you can realize that a republic has been replaced with Empire? To say it can't happen is to be willfully blind. The Roman Republic existed for centuries and was replaced by one man rule and tyranny.

Can any deny that the US is an oligarchy at the present moment? That it siezes other nations militarily and holds them captive through various means, financial, political and military? That it engages in propaganda ops against its own citizens?

C'mon, deny it you Bush toadies! But the rewards you reap will not be security and prosperity. Instead you will face increasing national indebtedness, increasingly draconian security legislation, policemen and cameras prying into your lives, and the life blood of your sons smeared on the battlefield.

The only way to freedom is freedom.

[Mia]

Quote by: GHook93 We as American citizens are protected from this! The Bill of Rights and the Constitution were enacted to protect AMERICAN CITIZEN'S RIGHTS. Not to protect foreign nationals or in many cases terrorist. Like it or not we are at war. If Bush and the Congress are taking rights away from foreign nationals and again in many cases murders, then boo hoo. I applaud these steps. First right move Bush has done. Get arrested in the middle east and see how it compares. These regulations are child's play compared to it. The Extreme Liberals (ACLU) are just as dangerous as the Extreme Conservative.

NO - an AMERICAN CITIZEN can be declared an enemy combatant for SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT - have you read the entire Patriot Act?

Have you read the new Act? It is NOT just for foreign nationals.

It is NOT just for terrorists. Bush says he will only USE it for terrorists. Guess you trust him, I don't.

[RickSp]

Quote by: xyzer Hey Rick... Padillio is an American citizen! Born in Brooklyn! Converted to Islam! Is it wrong to try him for plotting to kill his fellow citizens? Plotting against his own country? More Camel Hockey from the left!

Yes, give that kid a cookie. That was my point, though you obviously missed it.

Padillo is an American citizen who was stripped of his rights, held without charge and without an attorney for three years. Did I hear someone say that this couldn't happen to Americans?

You claim he was plotting to kill Americans. How do you you know? You don't. Was he guilty of anything? We will never know. He was denied his basic rights of habaes corpus. He is now being held on completely different and probably trumped up charges.

Welcome to the police state.

[Fonceai]

When the first American who speaks against the government is arrested, then you guys can talk.

Right now, the ones speaking out aren't just speaking, they are planning.

They are living amongst our enemies.

I'm with GHook93... this isn't as bad as you might think. We still have more freedom than anyone else on the planet.

Go ahead and try to voice anything about rights and freedom on the streets of Iraq while a woman is beaten in an alley because she looked you in the eye.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Fonceai When the first American who speaks against the government is arrested, then you guys can talk.

No, by then we will not be able to talk. Duh.

[Fonceai]

Then I guess you better take action now.

Stop whining on forum boards, get together a large enough group of people who sees this the way you do, and get so much support for your side that your local government will up-channel it.

If you aren't willing to do that now, then what point is there to your complaining?

[jose]

Independent Online Edition > UK Politics
this is about the loss of freedom in the UK but it has a bearing on the USA too