the holocaust

[underbear1]

Israelis will never leave Israel, and that you can take to the bank.Israel may someday be destroyed, but to the last Israeli they will stand and fight.
I don't understand the f*ckin greed of Iran, Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, and Syria they have ample resourses, probably a thousand times the amount of land compared to Israel, and yet can't help Palestine develop a homeland.

[namguy69]

I can't possibly conceive anyone not admitting there was a Hollcost. Six million Jews perished in the cruelest of way at the hands of the Nazi's. The Jewish people have been suffering in one way or another for the past 5,000 years.
namguy69

[Nono]

I can't possibly conceive anyone not admitting there was a Hollcost.

Well make an effort. There are plenty of them out there.
(You could also learn to spell the word. )

[ise]

Quote by: namguy69 I can't possibly conceive anyone not admitting there was a Holocaust. namguy69

• Sure if you can't, you can't.
• You can only do what's possible, right.
• For the rest us, well, we saw the smoke.
• It's a belief thing.
• You do or you don't.
• God knows why, doesn't he/she?

Yes, you "can't possibly conceive", nameguy

I thought that I was the only one who put together sentences like that.:) I think that it must be that 69 thing.:) I'd be careful about where you put your.... . Stop that nameguy 69

[Nono]

It's "nam", not name. So 69 probably has another significance.

[bob60292]

Quote by: Nono Well make an effort. There are plenty of them out there. (You could also learn to spell the word. )

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________
Right Nono. You finally got us back on track in your own short and sweet way. There were " plenty of them". None were either justified or excusable. Whether one calls it holocaust or mass murder is "six of one or half dozen of the other". They were deadly persecutions that should never have happened. We should sympathize with the victims of Lenon, Stalin, Mao, Johnson, Nixon, Hitler etc..; but we must also be aware of 2 things.
1..Persecution does not necessarily make a victimized group, whether political, religious, or racial rightfully eligible to create a homeland at the expense of the taxpayers of other nations.
2. The antisemitism witnessed in World War 2 was a product of Europeans, not Palestinians.
Nono- before you deal with my spelling let me remind you of the saying of a Guy who saw the difference between man made tradition and Truth

" Let he who has never sinned cast the first stone." Jesus of Nazareth
But if you do critize my spelling I'll forgive you. When you're right you're right.

[ise]

Quote by: Nono It's "nam", not name. So 69 probably has another significance.

You are right 'throbbing member'

[zynner]

Question -- and some people will yell and scream and call names -- but it's a legitimate question. I don't know the answer, but I think it's important.

I have read that following WWI (not WWII, but WWI) that there was a claim that 6 million Jews had been murdered in Russia during the war. Mind you, not 4 million or 8 million or some other number, but SIX MILLION. Jews, not people, but Jews.

However, the story goes, nobody could verify it or for whatever reason(s) the claim did not stick.

Then, following WWII, the same claim is made that 6 million Jews are murdered in Germany. Mind you, not 3 or 7 million or some other number, but 6 million.

Furthermore, I read that there is a very old prophecy (or something) about how the Jews will return to the Promised Land, but only after 6 million Jews are murdered. Mind you, not 2 or 10 million or some other number, but 6 million.

The claim is that the "story" of the 6 million Jews dying in Germany did not exactly happen the way we have been told but that it was propoganda to get world simpathy to create the state of Israel in order to fulfill this prophecy (the only way a zionist or Jewish state could be created in the 20th Century).

If true, that would be a motive in some people's minds to lie. But is there any evidence? I read that there are no records from the Germans showing mass killings. Maybe they destroyed such records; I don't know. Also, the gas chambers were mostly delousing chambers to kill lice and other nasty bugs that the "detainees," as George Bush might say, would carry with them. In fact, only a very small number of gas chambers are claimed to be killing chambers, as there are many more that are said to be delousing chambers. The "story" goes that all were actually delousing chambers and none were actually killing chambers and that the genocide story is a lie.

What about the bodies? They aren't there -- not 6 million. Yes, there are graves of dead people, even mass graves. But it's a few hundred thousand, not 6 million. And most of them, according to the "story" died of various diseases (such as Anne Frank). There is lots of hair and clothing piled up, but that would be expected as people came into camp, had their head shaved and new clothing issued and deloused to rid them of lice. There are also the pictures of the extremely skinny "walking dead" prisoners. Those pictures were taken at the end of the war, following several months where German supplies were cut off and, no doubt, the prisoners were the last to receive food.

I read that all of the judges at the Nuremberg trials were Jews and that some of the witnesses and defendants were tortured to obtain testimony (certainly, none of us can conceive of such a thing as torture to get information, right?).

Anyway, I realize this is a veeeeeeeery emotional subject for many. I am sad for ALL the people who died -- Jews, as well as the non-Jews who died trying to save them (and who, by the way, don't seem to get much thanks from Jews for some reason).

Does anyone know about these issues (as in, have you investigaged these things objectively and reached conclusions)?

I am only interested in knowing truth. I care not about dogma or "official" history. Sometimes "official" history is accurate and sometimes it is a pack of lies. The first time I ever heard of anybody who questioned the official story, I dismissed them without any consideration. I could not conceive that anyone didn't automatically "just know" that it happend like we were all told in our government-issued school books. The second time, I thought it's kind of interesting, but it just can't be true. Finally, I checked it out. If the "denyers" are crazy, then they are some people who make an intersting case.

But I remain neutral and skeptical of both sides.

I'm just curious, since the topic was brought up.

~ zynner

[underbear1]

@zynner

http://www.roberthjackson.org/documents/100746/
"JUSTICE JACKSON'S FINAL REPORT TO THE PRESIDENT CONCERNING THE NURNBERG WAR CRIMES TRIAL

The President, The White House, Washington, D. C.

My dear Mr. President:

I have the honor to report as to the duties which you delegated to me on May 2, 1945 in connection with the prosecution of major Nazi war criminals."

Jackson doesn't sound like a Jewish name to me zynner.
The 6 million figure came from German records, and physical evidence of clothes, teeth, jewelry,shoes. The German's really loved keeping their records....sadistic savage records. I suggest you watch the film Mein Kampf, (which the first part is filmed by Germans and the final footage is filmed by Americans who liberated the Camps.)
Mein Kampf/Adolf Hitler
Pay close attention to the German villagers they made bury the huge piles of corpses. Read Eli Wiesel too.
There are several holocaust museums you can visit, Washington DC has one.

[ise]

Quote by: zynner I have read that following WWI (not WWII, but WWI) that there was a claim that 6 million Jews had been murdered in Russia during the war. Mind you, not 4 million or 8 million or some other number, but SIX MILLION. Jews, not people, but Jews. However, the story goes, nobody could verify it or for whatever reason(s) the claim did not stick. Anyway, I realize this is a very emotional subject for many. I am sad for ALL the people who died -- Jews, as well as the non-Jews who died trying to save them (and who, by the way, don't seem to get much thanks from Jews for some reason). Does anyone know about these issues (as in, have you investigated these things objectively and reached conclusions)? I am only interested in knowing truth. But I remain neutral and skeptical of both sides.~ zynner

Up until about 5 years ago I readily accepted the standard line on the Holocaust. Now! "I am only interested in knowing truth. But I remain neutral and skeptical of both sides" would also sum up my position.

A number of things strike me.

Some EU countries and maybe US require that citizens believe/accept the accepted line. This I cannot understand and it makes me very suspicious. I know of no other item where a citizen is required to accept any belief - even God or not. TG in Ireland you can believe anything.

Next you come across survivors who lost all other members of their families. This would represent a lot of dead people, but not 6 million. Now why cannot a complete list be compiled from records that do exist. Maybe there has been such a list. If so, how can there be any argument about the total numbers lost.

I'm not in favour of the regular Zionist response nowadays as regards its excess. If I was to believe that the victims/Palestinians of today are themselves responsible for their own losses then I'd have to apply the same logic to the victims/Jews back then and conclude that they were themselves responsible for the Holocaust. You cannot have it both ways. I do accept that back before WW2 the Zionist choose not to save non-Zionist Jews from what was expected and promised.

Lastly what adds to my scepticism is the Zionist strong tendency to lie and never accept fault. When I know they lie so much today, why should not doubt them regarding the Holocaust? Certainly I know they are professional whingers and have screwed 'retribution' from bankers, countries, etc with no attempt at justification. And the Jewish families of the victims do not receive the 'compensation'.

[underbear1]

There is no point in my continuing on this thread, it's OBVIOUSLY anti semetic and anti-Israel, and nothing will change that.

[drgilbert4]

The real questions we need to ask here to end the debate are:

1: If Israel stopped fighting the Palestinians, what would be the result?

Ans: The Palestinians would push Israel into the sea.

2: If the Palestinians stopped fighting the Israelis, what would be the result?

Ans: Peace

I don't care what side you are on in this debate. Without changing the argument to anti-semitism or sympathy for the Palestinian cause, can you argue with either of my answers?

[bob60292]

Quote by: underbear1 There is no point in my continuing on this thread, it's OBVIOUSLY anti semetic and anti-Israel, and nothing will change that.

not true underbear; Just because it doesn't say " my Israel right or wrong" doesn't make it antisemetic.. The fact is that Zionists have been milking the Nazi holocaust for all it's worth to justify any horrendous thing that israel does. Noone is above accountability; and that includes Israel.

[bob60292]

Quote by: drgilbert4 The real questions we need to ask here to end the debate are: 1: If Israel stopped fighting the Palestinians, what would be the result? Ans: The Palestinians would push Israel into the sea. 2: If the Palestinians stopped fighting the Israelis, what would be the result? Ans: Peace I don't care what side you are on in this debate. Without changing the argument to anti-semitism or sympathy for the Palestinian cause, can you argue with either of my answers?

________________________________________________________________

Absolutely. It can be argued, has been argued, and will be argued until Palestine returns from the "sea" and both Jews and Gentiles live harmoniously together sharing the wealth and the power.

[namguy69]

Only a fool wouldn't admit there wasn't a Jewish Holocaust, and I might add the Catholic Church was IN FACT played a part in it. Read your history, well the Vatican powers.
namguy69

[namguy69]

How about the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C.????
namguy69

[bob60292]

Quote by: namguy69 Only a fool wouldn't admit there wasn't a Jewish Holocaust, and I might add the Catholic Church was IN FACT played a part in it. Read your history, well the Vatican powers. namguy69

____________________________________________________________

Read yours What about B'nai. These were Jewish Zionists that supported Hitler.Quess what they were after.
What about the Rothchilds who helped to fund the Nazis?
What about Rosenberg who was himself partly of Jewish heritage?
What about the Cathilic churches efforts to save Jews, in spite of the fact that the TALMUD CALLS JESUS A BASTARD WHO WAS CONCEIVED DURING MENSTRUATION.; and calls His mother a Whore.
There is good and bad in all races and faiths. Judaism is no exception.
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[shrike]

Read yours What about B'nai. These were Jewish Zionists that supported Hitler.Quess what they were after. What about the Rothchilds who helped to fund the Nazis? What about Rosenberg who was himself partly of Jewish heritage? What about the Cathilic churches efforts to save Jews, in spite of the fact that the TALMUD CALLS JESUS A BASTARD WHO WAS CONCEIVED DURING MENSTRUATION.; and calls His mother a Whore. There is good and bad in all races and faiths. Judaism is no exception. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Could you provide some kind of proof to you allegations?

[bob60292]

Quote by: shrike Could you provide some kind of proof to you allegations?

I can provide you with the book titles if you'd like; but this is the information age. Why do you need me to do it for. Go on the net.
but how about this as the first 2 installments. read it and then come back for more
Judaism's Strange Gods by Michael A. Hoffman II and

The Politics of Dispossession by the late Professor Edward W. Said.

[shrike]

I can provide you with the book titles if you'd like; but this is the information age. Why do you need me to do it for. Go on the net. but how about this as the first 2 installments. read it and then come back for more Judaism's Strange Gods by Michael A. Hoffman II and The Politics of Dispossession by the late Professor Edward W. Said.

Links to some credible informative sites would be enough. I don't have access to the same books you have.
But I searched some of you claim.
For example Rosenberg

Rosenberg was born to Baltic German parents in Reval (Tallinn) Estonia, then part of the Russian Empire.

Alfred Rosenberg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So he wasnt Jew apperantly
I didn't found anything about organization named "B'nai".
And so on. But if you have a link to some credible informative sites that contradict what I am saying I will happily see them