Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Captain Chaos · Oct 10, 2006, 07:29 pm

It seems to me that the Democratic Party is very diverse in the beliefs of its members. Another way to put it might be to say that they lack unity.

Are Democrats all about welfare and social programs? Are they all about civil liberties?

What do you feel are the guiding values of the modern Democratic Party?

RVonse · Oct 10, 2006, 11:35 pm

They are suppose to believe in a strong middle class.

shield772 · Oct 11, 2006, 12:38 am

I can not speak for individual Democrats but it seems to me that the leadership doesn't believe in Americans or America, they do not believe we can handle our own money or problems they want government to be all pervasive in everyday life, more taxes because the government can spend the money better. They believe killing a child is ok but not a turtle or any other animal, criminals have more rights than victims or the police. These are just a few examples. IMHO

republicantiger · Oct 11, 2006, 08:38 am

they believe in: big government that controls everyone, giving lazy bums who won't work for a living as much money as they want, letting criminals go without punishment, killing babies, letting illegal aliens sneak across the border and live here for free, letting minorities have whatever they want, letting terrorists attack us as long as we don't have to go to war,
that about sums it up.

underbear1 · Oct 11, 2006, 08:45 am

Democrats believe in Civil Rights, Women's Rights, and do much better on Human Rights. Democrats work for healthcare, and education. Science was NEVER disputed by Democrats who live in the REAL WORLD not Jesusland.

Autolykos · Oct 11, 2006, 08:47 am

Well, Underbear, that begs the question -- what do Democrats define as "civil/women's/human rights"?

- Rob

underbear1 · Oct 11, 2006, 08:50 am

Equality

Acebass · Oct 11, 2006, 09:06 am

LOL you ask about Democrats and you get more Republicans than Dems defining the issue...what else is new...

Democrats believe this is OUR country, not just priviledge fews...
We believe in working for the betterment of all, not just the wealthy...
We believe that all are created equal and deserve the same chance to succeed as the next person...
We believe in a fiscally responsible government...Social Programs are only as good as the funds to support them and you don't start a program without proper funding...
We believe in a lot of things the Republicans don't...Go to a Democratic rally and find out, you just might learn something!...There's one here in town tonight and all are invited...

Autolykos · Oct 11, 2006, 09:13 am

"Equality"? That's it? Why bother, then, to speak of things like "civil rights", "women's rights", and "human rights", when all you really mean is equality?

- Rob

Fonceai · Oct 11, 2006, 10:16 am

I'm with Autolykos on this.

When you put a classification on the type of rights, you hint that there are groups still lacking equal rights.

Equality is best.

And as far as when it means to be a Democrat, I would guess it means conforming to the Democrat stance on issues and policies. But you end up being associated with some policies you probably don't really like.

Captain Chaos · Oct 11, 2006, 10:22 am

I am independent. I have some Libertarian sympathies (please, no flaming, we have already argued this), but in general I just cannot ally myself with the parties that are out there, because they don't really stand for what I want.

It seems to me that the Democrats have a very wide range of beliefs, rather than the more unified set of beliefs you find with Republicans.

For example, does the democratic party support Welfare? Universal healthcare? I am not convinced that they really have a single stance on those issues.

What I find interesting is how Dems and Pubs demonize each other. If you look at the Republican responses to this thread, they paint a very different picture than the Democratic responses.

For example, RepublicanTiger says that Dems believe in big government that controls everyone. Is this really true? After all, it was the Republicans who passed the Patriot Act. It is Republicans in North Carolina that keep it illegal for non-married couples to cohabitate. It is Republicans who wish to outlaw same-sex marriage. Are there similar examples of Democrats engaging in social control?

Shield772 said the Dems believe "...criminals have more rights than victims or the police." Can you provide examples to support this, Shield? If so, can you provide evidence that Dems feel this way in general, rather than a few isolated examples?

Fonceai · Oct 11, 2006, 10:52 am

Already I can see the danger in this thread...

Generalizing Democrats and generalizing the Democratic Party.

Do the first one and someone will take offense. Do the second, and you are a bit more in the clear because you will then be addressing the beliefs endorsed by the Party-entity.

Captain Chaos · Oct 11, 2006, 11:17 am

I see what you mean. But, some generalizations about groups of people are true - generally speaking.

But, look at how the Republicans make such incredibly nasty generalizations about the Democrats! Such thinking can justifyably be called demonizing.

brien · Oct 11, 2006, 11:24 am

Quote:

Quote by: Captain Chaos

It seems to me that the Democratic Party is very diverse in the beliefs of its members. Another way to put it might be to say that they lack unity.

Are Democrats all about welfare and social programs? Are they all about civil liberties?

What do you feel are the guiding values of the modern Democratic Party?

You can praddle on about this untill the proverbial cows come home but the real answers lie in the voting records in Congress.

Link:Project Vote Smart - American Government, Elections, Candidates and Voting

Link:Congress votes database | washingtonpost.com

Fonceai · Oct 11, 2006, 12:06 pm

Ooo... good links, brien.

I forgot how polarized the parties can be on issues.

underbear1 · Oct 11, 2006, 12:34 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Autolykos

"Equality"? That's it? Why bother, then, to speak of things like "civil rights", "women's rights", and "human rights", when all you really mean is equality?

- Rob

The battles for equality by different factions are seperate, although there are over laps, (ie. a Hispanic lesbian.) Women still earn 75 cents to a man's dollar, African Americans are more frequently stopped by police, and more likel;y to go to prison for drug busts, gays/lesbians obviously are discriminated in the workplace, housing, adoption, and partner rights.

"Equality"? That's it? That's the reason WARS have been waged, so don't treat it as a minor detail.

Captain Chaos · Oct 11, 2006, 12:59 pm

Quote:

Women still earn 75 cents to a man's dollar,

I am sceptical of this number. Is it made comparing men and women with the same job and the same number of years of experience?

Autolykos · Oct 11, 2006, 01:40 pm

Quote:

Quote by: underbear1

The battles for equality by different factions are seperate, although there are over laps, (ie. a Hispanic lesbian.) Women still earn 75 cents to a man's dollar, African Americans are more frequently stopped by police, and more likel;y to go to prison for drug busts, gays/lesbians obviously are discriminated in the workplace, housing, adoption, and partner rights.

Let's see... where do you draw the line? I don't think I have to tell you how absurd it would be to take "equality" to its logical conclusion... :rolleyes:

Quote:

"Equality"? That's it? That's the reason WARS have been waged, so don't treat it as a minor detail.

LOL -- since when have wars been waged in the name of "equality"?

- Rob

shield772 · Oct 11, 2006, 01:49 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Captain Chaos

I am independent. I have some Libertarian sympathies (please, no flaming, we have already argued this), but in general I just cannot ally myself with the parties that are out there, because they don't really stand for what I want.

It seems to me that the Democrats have a very wide range of beliefs, rather than the more unified set of beliefs you find with Republicans.

For example, does the democratic party support Welfare? Universal healthcare? I am not convinced that they really have a single stance on those issues.

What I find interesting is how Dems and Pubs demonize each other. If you look at the Republican responses to this thread, they paint a very different picture than the Democratic responses.

For example, RepublicanTiger says that Dems believe in big government that controls everyone. Is this really true? After all, it was the Republicans who passed the Patriot Act. It is Republicans in North Carolina that keep it illegal for non-married couples to cohabitate. It is Republicans who wish to outlaw same-sex marriage. Are there similar examples of Democrats engaging in social control?

Shield772 said the Dems believe "...criminals have more rights than victims or the police." Can you provide examples to support this, Shield? If so, can you provide evidence that Dems feel this way in general, rather than a few isolated examples?

Just look at laws passed by democratic legislative bodies, look at how the liberal media treat criminals and then see how they treat victims and police, look at the history of the never ending handcuffing and hamstringing of the police and their ability to prove someone committed a crime, and then look where those laws and regulations and rules of evidence come from, you will see democrats with their fingerprints all over it.

Fonceai · Oct 11, 2006, 01:50 pm

Also, look at that number in relation to specific jobs, and check on the amount of time over which the study was taken.

In some fields, there is no difference. In others, there is a big difference.

As far as the amount of time, my wife was told once by a drunk HR rep. why women usually get paid less...

Because they either have kids and can't dedicate as much time to the job (which is the same as men, but men usually are the ones to say at work when the wife goes home) or they plan on having kids and will be doing some kind of maternity leave.

I know it sounds stereotypical, but in certain industries, that's how they perceive it.

Oct 10, 2006, 07:29 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Captain Chaos Shifting Paradigms Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 3,102	What does it mean to be a Democrat? It seems to me that the Democratic Party is very diverse in the beliefs of its members. Another way to put it might be to say that they lack unity. Are Democrats all about welfare and social programs? Are they all about civil liberties? What do you feel are the guiding values of the modern Democratic Party? Do all things with love.

Oct 11, 2006, 12:38 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
shield772 57 Dead LEO's in 08 Location: Washington, WV Posts: 1,757	I can not speak for individual Democrats but it seems to me that the leadership doesn't believe in Americans or America, they do not believe we can handle our own money or problems they want government to be all pervasive in everyday life, more taxes because the government can spend the money better. They believe killing a child is ok but not a turtle or any other animal, criminals have more rights than victims or the police. These are just a few examples. IMHO Republican Liberty Caucus Moderate Republican Officer Down Memorial Page

Oct 11, 2006, 08:38 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
republicantiger republican Location: Georgia Posts: 31	they believe in: big government that controls everyone, giving lazy bums who won't work for a living as much money as they want, letting criminals go without punishment, killing babies, letting illegal aliens sneak across the border and live here for free, letting minorities have whatever they want, letting terrorists attack us as long as we don't have to go to war, that about sums it up. "Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less." Robert E. Lee

Oct 11, 2006, 08:47 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Autolykos Logical Phallussy Location: In your internets. Posts: 2,991	Well, Underbear, that begs the question -- what do Democrats define as "civil/women's/human rights"? - Rob "I'd rather be free and alive!" -- Ron Paul Religion isn't the greatest threat to mankind -- authoritarianism is. The Anarcheion Zeitgeist

Oct 11, 2006, 09:06 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Acebass Necromancer Location: Louisville Ky Posts: 95	LOL you ask about Democrats and you get more Republicans than Dems defining the issue...what else is new... Democrats believe this is OUR country, not just priviledge fews... We believe in working for the betterment of all, not just the wealthy... We believe that all are created equal and deserve the same chance to succeed as the next person... We believe in a fiscally responsible government...Social Programs are only as good as the funds to support them and you don't start a program without proper funding... We believe in a lot of things the Republicans don't...Go to a Democratic rally and find out, you just might learn something!...There's one here in town tonight and all are invited... Liberal!..nuff said!

Oct 10, 2006, 11:35 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
RVonse Igneous Magma Posts: 563	They are suppose to believe in a strong middle class.

Oct 11, 2006, 08:45 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	Democrats believe in Civil Rights, Women's Rights, and do much better on Human Rights. Democrats work for healthcare, and education. Science was NEVER disputed by Democrats who live in the REAL WORLD not Jesusland.

Oct 11, 2006, 08:50 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	Equality

Oct 11, 2006, 09:13 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Autolykos Logical Phallussy Location: In your internets. Posts: 2,991	"Equality"? That's it? Why bother, then, to speak of things like "civil rights", "women's rights", and "human rights", when all you really mean is equality? - Rob "I'd rather be free and alive!" -- Ron Paul Religion isn't the greatest threat to mankind -- authoritarianism is. The Anarcheion Zeitgeist

Oct 11, 2006, 10:16 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	I'm with Autolykos on this. When you put a classification on the type of rights, you hint that there are groups still lacking equal rights. Equality is best. And as far as when it means to be a Democrat, I would guess it means conforming to the Democrat stance on issues and policies. But you end up being associated with some policies you probably don't really like.

Oct 11, 2006, 10:22 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Captain Chaos Shifting Paradigms Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 3,102	I am independent. I have some Libertarian sympathies (please, no flaming, we have already argued this), but in general I just cannot ally myself with the parties that are out there, because they don't really stand for what I want. It seems to me that the Democrats have a very wide range of beliefs, rather than the more unified set of beliefs you find with Republicans. For example, does the democratic party support Welfare? Universal healthcare? I am not convinced that they really have a single stance on those issues. What I find interesting is how Dems and Pubs demonize each other. If you look at the Republican responses to this thread, they paint a very different picture than the Democratic responses. For example, RepublicanTiger says that Dems believe in big government that controls everyone. Is this really true? After all, it was the Republicans who passed the Patriot Act. It is Republicans in North Carolina that keep it illegal for non-married couples to cohabitate. It is Republicans who wish to outlaw same-sex marriage. Are there similar examples of Democrats engaging in social control? Shield772 said the Dems believe "...criminals have more rights than victims or the police." Can you provide examples to support this, Shield? If so, can you provide evidence that Dems feel this way in general, rather than a few isolated examples? Do all things with love.

Oct 11, 2006, 10:52 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	Already I can see the danger in this thread... Generalizing Democrats and generalizing the Democratic Party. Do the first one and someone will take offense. Do the second, and you are a bit more in the clear because you will then be addressing the beliefs endorsed by the Party-entity.

Oct 11, 2006, 11:17 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Captain Chaos Shifting Paradigms Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 3,102	I see what you mean. But, some generalizations about groups of people are true - generally speaking. But, look at how the Republicans make such incredibly nasty generalizations about the Democrats! Such thinking can justifyably be called demonizing. Do all things with love.

Oct 11, 2006, 12:06 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	Ooo... good links, brien. I forgot how polarized the parties can be on issues.

Oct 11, 2006, 01:50 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	Also, look at that number in relation to specific jobs, and check on the amount of time over which the study was taken. In some fields, there is no difference. In others, there is a big difference. As far as the amount of time, my wife was told once by a drunk HR rep. why women usually get paid less... Because they either have kids and can't dedicate as much time to the job (which is the same as men, but men usually are the ones to say at work when the wife goes home) or they plan on having kids and will be doing some kind of maternity leave. I know it sounds stereotypical, but in certain industries, that's how they perceive it.