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**Sean** · Oct 1, 2003, 02:17 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,276...1052334,00.html

US military intelligence has concluded that almost all the claims made by Iraqi defectors about Saddam Hussein's alleged secret weapons were either useless or false, it was reported yesterday.
The assessment by the Pentagon defense intelligence agency (DIA), leaked to US journalists, amounts to an indictment of the Iraqi National Congress, which brought the defectors to Washington's attention, adding to the momentum towards invasion. A DIA official would not confirm or deny the report's existence yesterday, saying any such document would be classified, but adding: "Any intelligence we get from an individual we never use as a sole source but we add it to our database.

"We don't make decisions or take action based on sole sources."

The leak reflects a growing backlash by the US intelligence agencies - principally the CIA, DIA and the state department's intelligence arm - whose findings and recommendations on Iraq were overruled before the war in favour of far more sensational assessments made by ideologically driven groups in the Pentagon and the vice-president's office.

"All this is coming out now, because they didn't have the political spine to do it before," said Vincent Cannistraro, a former head of CIA counter-intelligence operations.

"Now the tide has turned internally in terms of the use of intelligence before the war."

In another sign of that turning tide, the CIA director, George Tenet, has asked the justice department to investigate allegations that one or more administration officials leaked the name of a CIA analyst married to a prominent critic of the administration's Iraq policy, Joseph Wilson.

Mr Wilson, a former ambassador and a member of the national security council, has said he believes the leak came direct from the White House, and has hinted that one of the sources could have been President Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove.

The White House spokesman Scott McClellan said: "There has been absolutely nothing brought to our attention that suggests White House involvement."

The DIA report strikes at the heart of administration's justification for going to war: that the Iraqi regime represented an imminent danger to the US because of its development of weapons of mass destruction.

A report by a CIA-led search team, the Iraqi Survey Group, due to be delivered to Congress this week, is expected to confirm that no stockpiles of such weapons have been found after a six-month hunt.

Much of the US and British case against Saddam was built on the testimony of defectors, and in Washingtonat least, most of those defectors were shepherded out of Iraq by the INC.

DIA officials interviewed about half a dozen defectors in European capitals and in the Kurdish-run northern city of Irbil in late 2002 and 2003.

They brought with them claims that Saddam was continuing to build biological, chemical and nuclear weapons underground and undetected by UN inspectors.

But according to the DIA report, only a third of the information they provided was of any interest, and most of the leads arising from the rest proved groundless.

The INC defectors were largely spurned by the CIA and state department, who believed they were concocting stories in the hope of being resettled in the US.

But they won an enthusiastic audience in the Pentagon's office of special plans (OSP), set up after September 11, which became a parallel civilian channel for intelligence on Iraq, operating independently of the uniformed officers running the DIA.

According to yesterday's edition of Time magazine, the INC's American representative in Washington, Francis Brooke, was in weekly contact with the head of the OSP, William Luti, in the build-up to the war.

Neither Mr Brooke nor the INC office in Washington returned calls yesterday.

The OSP has been disbanded since the war, but its staff remains at work under different titles in the Pentagon.

____________________________

I don't throw my opinion up too much because I want to avoid having any leverage (I own the site), but I find this article revolting. First Bush tells the unaware public that Sept 11 has nothing to do with Iraq, and now the Military tells the public that the Weapons of Mass destruction Intel was incorrect.

Geoff332 · Oct 1, 2003, 02:25 am

Funnily enough, I was saying both of those things about a year ago (the Saddam/Sept 11 link never had any evidence; the case for WMD was always very weak). As far as I'm concerned Bush and Blair (or the Governments they lead) deceived their people and took their nations to war on a lie. Whether this was due to incompetence or intention is largely irrelevant.

fedfem · Oct 1, 2003, 11:30 am

No debate from my side here. Like Geoff, this is not news to some of us. It won't go much further I am afraid, military personnal are already being held(but not charged) for treason and spying and other reasons to discredit them in the eyes of the sheeple.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 1, 2003, 04:19 pm

Too bad the information was "released," so to speak, when the point was moot. It'll probably be another 5 years before we dredge up the dirt officially on this failure of a white house.

Fallen Angel · Oct 8, 2003, 01:23 am

Quote:

Originally posted by RebelWithanAK@10-01-2003 04:19 PM
Too bad the information was "released," so to speak, when the point was moot. It'll probably be another 5 years before we dredge up the dirt officially on this failure of a white house.

There will be quite a bit of dirt dragged up on the Clintons admin someday I'm sure.

Section 8 · Oct 8, 2003, 02:44 am

My favorite bumper sticker is: Clinto got a blow job, Bush is giving one
Clinton had sex with an intern. Don't care.
Bush killed thousands of people. Do care.

Fallen Angel · Oct 8, 2003, 03:33 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Section 8@10-08-2003 02:44 AM
My favorite bumper sticker is: Clinto got a blow job, Bush is giving one
Clinton had sex with an intern. Don't care.
Bush killed thousands of people. Do care.

So you did'nt mind your President being a womaniser?

G. Adams · Oct 8, 2003, 06:02 am

What the hell does your personal life have to do with your professional life? We all make stupid mistakes, as long as he never makes such mistakes in his presidential duties.

Fallen Angel · Oct 8, 2003, 06:35 am

Quote:

Originally posted by G. Adams@10-08-2003 06:02 AM
What the hell does your personal life have to do with your professional life? We all make stupid mistakes, as long as he never makes such mistakes in his presidential duties.

But Monica was giving him a headjob in his office, wasnt she?

G. Adams · Oct 8, 2003, 08:00 am

That doesn't matter, its not like she was getting national secrets out of him for it.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 8, 2003, 11:05 am

FA, it's downright childish to continue on the clinton-bashing bandwagon when we have more pressing concerns to address. If it means a world that likes America, peace talks in the middle east and Korea, and a bullish commodities market, then the president can get all the blowjobs he wants, god damn it! He deserves every last one of them! Remember, we CAUGHT Milosevic, whereas we STILL can't find Bin Laden or Hussein...

Impenitent · Oct 8, 2003, 11:43 am

continue believing the left wing lies from the major media... or read the truth for yourself

http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/spee...y_10022003.html

G. Adams · Oct 8, 2003, 12:32 pm

Oh wow and the CIA is the most trustworthy and unbiased of sources these days.

fedfem · Oct 8, 2003, 12:35 pm

Ok, I read it. Your point? Tells me no WMD found. What do you read from it?

Impenitent · Oct 8, 2003, 04:17 pm

intent and capability... they would have had the weapons up and running in a week... remember what the un found... nothing compared to what we have found so far... and just look at how many more violations of the un treaties we have caught iraq in violation... more will be revealed... just illustrating the lack of truthful reporting...

Geoff332 · Oct 8, 2003, 06:52 pm

It seems, in California at least, that it's not just Presidents and Democrats that are womanisers.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 8, 2003, 09:16 pm

Thankfully, comparitively few Democrats had Nazi ties, unlike H. Walker Bush and CA's "Da Governator"...

PatrickHenry · Nov 16, 2004, 06:04 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Impenitent,
intent and capability... they would have had the weapons up and running in a week... remember what the un found... nothing compared to what we have found so far... and just look at how many more violations of the un treaties we have caught iraq in violation... more will be revealed... just illustrating the lack of truthful reporting...

Impenitent, where did you go? I wish you would come back and consume some humble pie. "Weapons up and running in a week..." No wonder you split and never returned.

The lack of truthful reporting concerns me too. But I see the media lying different lies than you do.

bullshitdetector · Nov 16, 2004, 08:15 am

That is because you wear rose colored glasses, PH.

Technosoul · Nov 17, 2004, 04:07 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Fallen Angel,
My favorite bumper sticker is: Clinto got a blow job, Bush is giving one
Clinton had sex with an intern. Don't care.
Bush killed thousands of people. Do care.

So you did'nt mind your President being a womaniser?[/b][/quote]

Ha, you thought Clinton was a womanizer, after the intern first "flashed him with her boobs". Well, he is small fry - you have not seen nothin' yet, for the Republicans want to push Arnold Whats-his-name as their next President (once they make another amendment) and he has a big track record of molesting women.

But Devil or Angel, which ever you are, you are not debating this topic correctly - you are using "distraction in action" foolishness by trying to point the finger at Clinton when the topic is about Bush. Get make on track.

Oct 1, 2003, 02:17 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Sean former overlord Location: New York Posts: 2,383	http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,276...1052334,00.html US military intelligence has concluded that almost all the claims made by Iraqi defectors about Saddam Hussein's alleged secret weapons were either useless or false, it was reported yesterday. The assessment by the Pentagon defense intelligence agency (DIA), leaked to US journalists, amounts to an indictment of the Iraqi National Congress, which brought the defectors to Washington's attention, adding to the momentum towards invasion. A DIA official would not confirm or deny the report's existence yesterday, saying any such document would be classified, but adding: "Any intelligence we get from an individual we never use as a sole source but we add it to our database. "We don't make decisions or take action based on sole sources." The leak reflects a growing backlash by the US intelligence agencies - principally the CIA, DIA and the state department's intelligence arm - whose findings and recommendations on Iraq were overruled before the war in favour of far more sensational assessments made by ideologically driven groups in the Pentagon and the vice-president's office. "All this is coming out now, because they didn't have the political spine to do it before," said Vincent Cannistraro, a former head of CIA counter-intelligence operations. "Now the tide has turned internally in terms of the use of intelligence before the war." In another sign of that turning tide, the CIA director, George Tenet, has asked the justice department to investigate allegations that one or more administration officials leaked the name of a CIA analyst married to a prominent critic of the administration's Iraq policy, Joseph Wilson. Mr Wilson, a former ambassador and a member of the national security council, has said he believes the leak came direct from the White House, and has hinted that one of the sources could have been President Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove. The White House spokesman Scott McClellan said: "There has been absolutely nothing brought to our attention that suggests White House involvement." The DIA report strikes at the heart of administration's justification for going to war: that the Iraqi regime represented an imminent danger to the US because of its development of weapons of mass destruction. A report by a CIA-led search team, the Iraqi Survey Group, due to be delivered to Congress this week, is expected to confirm that no stockpiles of such weapons have been found after a six-month hunt. Much of the US and British case against Saddam was built on the testimony of defectors, and in Washingtonat least, most of those defectors were shepherded out of Iraq by the INC. DIA officials interviewed about half a dozen defectors in European capitals and in the Kurdish-run northern city of Irbil in late 2002 and 2003. They brought with them claims that Saddam was continuing to build biological, chemical and nuclear weapons underground and undetected by UN inspectors. But according to the DIA report, only a third of the information they provided was of any interest, and most of the leads arising from the rest proved groundless. The INC defectors were largely spurned by the CIA and state department, who believed they were concocting stories in the hope of being resettled in the US. But they won an enthusiastic audience in the Pentagon's office of special plans (OSP), set up after September 11, which became a parallel civilian channel for intelligence on Iraq, operating independently of the uniformed officers running the DIA. According to yesterday's edition of Time magazine, the INC's American representative in Washington, Francis Brooke, was in weekly contact with the head of the OSP, William Luti, in the build-up to the war. Neither Mr Brooke nor the INC office in Washington returned calls yesterday. The OSP has been disbanded since the war, but its staff remains at work under different titles in the Pentagon. ____________________________ I don't throw my opinion up too much because I want to avoid having any leverage (I own the site), but I find this article revolting. First Bush tells the unaware public that Sept 11 has nothing to do with Iraq, and now the Military tells the public that the Weapons of Mass destruction Intel was incorrect. So it goes

Oct 1, 2003, 04:19 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Too bad the information was "released," so to speak, when the point was moot. It'll probably be another 5 years before we dredge up the dirt officially on this failure of a white house. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 8, 2003, 06:02 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	What the hell does your personal life have to do with your professional life? We all make stupid mistakes, as long as he never makes such mistakes in his presidential duties. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 8, 2003, 08:00 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	That doesn't matter, its not like she was getting national secrets out of him for it. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 8, 2003, 11:05 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	FA, it's downright childish to continue on the clinton-bashing bandwagon when we have more pressing concerns to address. If it means a world that likes America, peace talks in the middle east and Korea, and a bullish commodities market, then the president can get all the blowjobs he wants, god damn it! He deserves every last one of them! Remember, we CAUGHT Milosevic, whereas we STILL can't find Bin Laden or Hussein... . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 1, 2003, 02:25 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Geoff332 Igneous Magma Location: New Zealand Posts: 309	Funnily enough, I was saying both of those things about a year ago (the Saddam/Sept 11 link never had any evidence; the case for WMD was always very weak). As far as I'm concerned Bush and Blair (or the Governments they lead) deceived their people and took their nations to war on a lie. Whether this was due to incompetence or intention is largely irrelevant.

Oct 1, 2003, 11:30 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	No debate from my side here. Like Geoff, this is not news to some of us. It won't go much further I am afraid, military personnal are already being held(but not charged) for treason and spying and other reasons to discredit them in the eyes of the sheeple.

Oct 8, 2003, 02:44 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	My favorite bumper sticker is: Clinto got a blow job, Bush is giving one Clinton had sex with an intern. Don't care. Bush killed thousands of people. Do care.

Oct 8, 2003, 11:43 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	continue believing the left wing lies from the major media... or read the truth for yourself http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/spee...y_10022003.html "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 8, 2003, 12:32 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	Oh wow and the CIA is the most trustworthy and unbiased of sources these days. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 8, 2003, 12:35 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	Ok, I read it. Your point? Tells me no WMD found. What do you read from it?

Oct 8, 2003, 04:17 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	intent and capability... they would have had the weapons up and running in a week... remember what the un found... nothing compared to what we have found so far... and just look at how many more violations of the un treaties we have caught iraq in violation... more will be revealed... just illustrating the lack of truthful reporting... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 8, 2003, 06:52 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Geoff332 Igneous Magma Location: New Zealand Posts: 309	It seems, in California at least, that it's not just Presidents and Democrats that are womanisers.

Oct 8, 2003, 09:16 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Thankfully, comparitively few Democrats had Nazi ties, unlike H. Walker Bush and CA's "Da Governator"... . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Nov 16, 2004, 08:15 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
bullshitdetector BANNED Posts: 598	That is because you wear rose colored glasses, PH.