Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

mooseboy84 · Apr 29, 2004, 10:03 am

ok, does anyone else see what were doing in fallujah has made no impact and has been a waste of life.

the reason we orginally started this little episode of "pacifacation" is because those 4 private security guards were dragged out of there cars and killed. because the US had to "show strength" we then had to cut off the city and start to engage in a military action. why are we doing this, why cant we just leave fallujah alone. it seems to me nothing has been gained in terms of turning over weapons, and killing 100 or so "terrorist" is nothing conisdering there are 300k people in the city, and we have killed innocent people and destroyed there masque. what we did has done NOTHING in helping our cause of "pacifying" the population.

jcgadfly · Apr 29, 2004, 10:06 am

We're backing out of Fallujah and providing reinforcements for the insurgents in the form of the "Fallujah Protective Army"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,276...1206015,00.html

mooseboy84 · Apr 29, 2004, 10:18 am

i dont know why so many men have to always show machismo like this. when it was first announced we would cut off teh city, i knew then it was a bad situation.

you just cant cut off a city of 300k people and expect rebels to hand over their guns. then, the US actually provokes the fighting by starting to go in house by house. of course teh terrorist are going to start shooting if us is moving in on there block.

just leaving it alone from the start would have been better. but no, some general had to "show strength" and go in and blow stuff up. when those 4 private security guards were first killed, i knew it was going to be difficult to get the people because there dozens of people in the streets taking part in it. the us would have done more by offering a reward for the people and gone after individuals instead of trying to show that the US can blow stuff up and kill people and who is the boss. that has gotten us no where, and now were starting to withdraw.

Impenitent · Apr 29, 2004, 10:54 am

we are not backing out... we are letting the iraqis police themselves... if the terrorists start back up and the iraqis need help, we will be right back in...

bishop · Apr 29, 2004, 10:57 am

this is all the cumulative effect of poor diplomacy (resulting in the absence of security council support) and poor post-war planning (if there even was a plan to begin with).

now, instead of digging up those wmd's, our guys are dying to give the iraqis democracy (that will probably crumble the second we leave).

Quote:

you just cant cut off a city of 300k people and expect rebels to hand over their guns. then, the US actually provokes the fighting by starting to go in house by house. of course teh terrorist are going to start shooting if us is moving in on there block.

amen to that.

increasingly, our behavior is becoming more like that of the israelis.

jcgadfly · Apr 30, 2004, 10:14 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Impenitent,
we are not backing out... we are letting the iraqis police themselves... if the terrorists start back up and the iraqis need help, we will be right back in...

Two problems with that idea:

(1) The leader of this "police force" was one of Saddam's generals.

(2) This "police force" will be as against firing on their own people as I hope our forces would be against firing on Americans.

All this new group will wind up doing is reinforcing the insurgents and the "coalition forces" :rolleyes: will be in a deeper hole than when they started.

Where are your investments, Impenitent? Coffins or flags?

BlackVelvet · Apr 30, 2004, 10:22 am

This kind of testosterone laden revenge has caused an even bigger mess. Does anyone really think putting one of Saddam's generals in charge is a good idea?

Between this action and the photos that have surfaced showing U.S. troops sexually humiliating Iraqi prisoners even the British are starting to criticize the U.S. We aren't winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqis, we are losing the support of allies. Just last week three coalition nations announced they are pulling out. What a cluster this is.

Zeebadee · Apr 30, 2004, 11:10 am

Every civilian that's killed in Iraq generates an entire family of America haters. By the time the U.S. turns over control to an "Iraqi government" the entire American army will be needed to keep the puppet government in power.

dotcoma · Apr 30, 2004, 11:52 am

This war was the end of America.

Impenitent · Apr 30, 2004, 12:43 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jcgadfly,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jcgadfly,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Impenitent,
we are not backing out... we are letting the iraqis police themselves... if the terrorists start back up and the iraqis need help, we will be right back in...

Two problems with that idea:

(1) The leader of this "police force" was one of Saddam's generals.

:rolleyes: so? if the police force doesn't finish the gig, we'll do it

(2) This "police force" will be as against firing on their own people as I hope our forces would be against firing on Americans.

:rolleyes: ask a policeman if he is against shooting a criminal because of their citizenship...

All this new group will wind up doing is reinforcing the insurgents and the "coalition forces" :rolleyes: will be in a deeper hole than when they started. ***** that is the fervent prayer of the dnc, but it isn't going to happen

Where are your investments, Impenitent? Coffins or flags?

:rolleyes: ARMS MANUFACTURERS
[/b][/quote]

dotcoma · Apr 30, 2004, 01:08 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Impenitent,
:rolleyes: ARMS MANUFACTURERS

Too bad the ones making all the money are private....

jcgadfly · Apr 30, 2004, 01:45 pm

Imp,

There's a reason I wrote it as "police force". These are soldiers, not cops. The people in the Fallujah Protective Army are not going in to keep the peace. The military is hoping to organize these poor saps to do their dirty work so they can cut their losses after being embarassed by the insurgents.

I wonder if the brass will discover this is a bad idea when the FPA starts shooting at them.

As far as actual police shooting crimnals - If a cop shoots to kill when his/her life is not in danger, the cop is a crimnal too.

bishop · Apr 30, 2004, 02:10 pm

this all goes back to bush's piss poor post-war planning, and not enough soldiers to police iraq - which occurred because of our lack of broad security council support (caused by bush's diplomatic disasters).

why did we wait unti now to go after al-sadr? hasn't he had a warrant out for his arrest for several months now?

this is all to show off, following the videos of americans being mutilated in the streets. just a propaganda stunt. 60-something days until the june 30 deadline.. who wants to bet that this situation won't be resolved by then?

i can't figure out a solution to this.. if we don't fight them, iraqis "might" fight them - which will help lead to a civil war in the future.

Apr 29, 2004, 10:03 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
mooseboy84 Molten Ash Location: Cognitive Dissonance Posts: 60	ok, does anyone else see what were doing in fallujah has made no impact and has been a waste of life. the reason we orginally started this little episode of "pacifacation" is because those 4 private security guards were dragged out of there cars and killed. because the US had to "show strength" we then had to cut off the city and start to engage in a military action. why are we doing this, why cant we just leave fallujah alone. it seems to me nothing has been gained in terms of turning over weapons, and killing 100 or so "terrorist" is nothing conisdering there are 300k people in the city, and we have killed innocent people and destroyed there masque. what we did has done NOTHING in helping our cause of "pacifying" the population. <<because i f**kin said so>>™

Apr 29, 2004, 10:18 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
mooseboy84 Molten Ash Location: Cognitive Dissonance Posts: 60	i dont know why so many men have to always show machismo like this. when it was first announced we would cut off teh city, i knew then it was a bad situation. you just cant cut off a city of 300k people and expect rebels to hand over their guns. then, the US actually provokes the fighting by starting to go in house by house. of course teh terrorist are going to start shooting if us is moving in on there block. just leaving it alone from the start would have been better. but no, some general had to "show strength" and go in and blow stuff up. when those 4 private security guards were first killed, i knew it was going to be difficult to get the people because there dozens of people in the streets taking part in it. the us would have done more by offering a reward for the people and gone after individuals instead of trying to show that the US can blow stuff up and kill people and who is the boss. that has gotten us no where, and now were starting to withdraw. <<because i f**kin said so>>™

Apr 29, 2004, 10:54 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	we are not backing out... we are letting the iraqis police themselves... if the terrorists start back up and the iraqis need help, we will be right back in... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Apr 30, 2004, 10:22 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
BlackVelvet Molten Ash Posts: 27	This kind of testosterone laden revenge has caused an even bigger mess. Does anyone really think putting one of Saddam's generals in charge is a good idea? Between this action and the photos that have surfaced showing U.S. troops sexually humiliating Iraqi prisoners even the British are starting to criticize the U.S. We aren't winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqis, we are losing the support of allies. Just last week three coalition nations announced they are pulling out. What a cluster this is. <span style='color:blue'>Words that do not match deeds are unimportant. - Ernesto Che Guevara Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. -unknown </span>

Apr 30, 2004, 11:10 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,713	Every civilian that's killed in Iraq generates an entire family of America haters. By the time the U.S. turns over control to an "Iraqi government" the entire American army will be needed to keep the puppet government in power. "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Apr 29, 2004, 10:06 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
jcgadfly Molten Ash Location: Bloomington IN Posts: 103	We're backing out of Fallujah and providing reinforcements for the insurgents in the form of the "Fallujah Protective Army" http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,276...1206015,00.html

Apr 30, 2004, 11:52 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	This war was the end of America.

Apr 30, 2004, 01:45 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
jcgadfly Molten Ash Location: Bloomington IN Posts: 103	Imp, There's a reason I wrote it as "police force". These are soldiers, not cops. The people in the Fallujah Protective Army are not going in to keep the peace. The military is hoping to organize these poor saps to do their dirty work so they can cut their losses after being embarassed by the insurgents. I wonder if the brass will discover this is a bad idea when the FPA starts shooting at them. As far as actual police shooting crimnals - If a cop shoots to kill when his/her life is not in danger, the cop is a crimnal too.

Apr 30, 2004, 02:10 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	this all goes back to bush's piss poor post-war planning, and not enough soldiers to police iraq - which occurred because of our lack of broad security council support (caused by bush's diplomatic disasters). why did we wait unti now to go after al-sadr? hasn't he had a warrant out for his arrest for several months now? this is all to show off, following the videos of americans being mutilated in the streets. just a propaganda stunt. 60-something days until the june 30 deadline.. who wants to bet that this situation won't be resolved by then? i can't figure out a solution to this.. if we don't fight them, iraqis "might" fight them - which will help lead to a civil war in the future. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/