Libertarian freedom

[Leopard]

Originally posted by Jet,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jet,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Nope, it's simply called modern liberalism. If I were a socialist, I wouldn't support legalizing treason, and I would likely shout idiotic mantras about capitalism and the workers, much in the same fasion libertarians shout idiotic mantra about government and freedom.[/b]

I have a mantra?

<!--QuoteBegin-Jet,

I disagree. Property rights the way you define them are part of quality of life, but especially as you pull out of poverty, they are far less important than raw quality of life issues (e.g. giving the apply to the hugnry woman). Further, remember that taxation on income and/or sales does not take private property but rather operates on public transactions. And finally, since many decisions can't be taken individually - e.g. public goods - in a sense the people authorize taxation indirectly by supporting a government that has it.[/quote]
how are property rights a part of quality of life? and they become less important as one pulls out of poverty?

Property Rights protect the results of your labor and effort. If I work 8 hours to buy a bicycle and someone steals my bicycle, they have 'stolen' an 8 hour portion of my life. Taxation is the same...

How can you say that taxation doesn't take private property? Isn't the money in my pocket representative of my property?

what the heck is a 'public transaction'?

HA! 'public goods'... gotta love that term - if they are so 'good' then why do people have to be coerced to provide for them? Feel free to give some examples of so-called 'public goods'...

michael

taxation is for the purpose of funding the organization of society and of good social works, which we all have a hand in. if you ever want to drive to washington state the highway will be there for you. or would you rather drag your oxcart there over the veldt?

your taxes fund our military, and i bet you never saw a cent back from it, or even personally used it. would you like to keep funding that?

"if they are so 'good' then why do people have to be coerced to provide for them?"
because they're greedy idiots.

[Osborn F Enready]

The point is THE PEOPLE should be able to control what they are and are not taxed for on the Federal level. Since the majority of the house and senate are "loyal" members of the two major parties, they do not vote with "we the people" in mind. That is not representative government, which is the problem. They dont address the issues, and never will, because the fact is what we have is a nightmare that is DEMANDING repair.

i quite agree. party politics are viciously negative to america and goodness. their partisanship upholds ridiculous laws that harm america. i despise such waste.

[Leopard]

wrong Mr. Dobbs - 'they' are humans, and first and foremost humans act in self-interest. If a highway is in their best interest, humans will build them - with OR without government coercing those them.

if you ever want to drive to washington state the highway will be there for you. or would you rather drag your oxcart there over the veldt?

fortunately, those are not the only choices, and a free market would provide as good or better choices than EITHER. You can take you oxcart, and I will allow people to be their naturally ingenious selves and come up with the best possible (for humans as we are) innovations which we can ALL benefit from. I disagree with your assertion that the government highway is the best method of transportation we can come up with - it certainly isn't the best in terms of speed, pollution, or use of funds. Combine that with the Nazi zoning systems we have which disallow folks from living close (or on top of, like European architecture) to their place of business which again wastes resources and time and creates more pollution due to the infamous 'commute'.

your taxes fund our military, and i bet you never saw a cent back from it, or even personally used it. would you like to keep funding that?
Libertarians conceed that national defense is one of the very few so called public goods that are legitimate endeavors for our government - and I 'currently' agree. This could change as I understand the concepts for the private production of defense which I am reading about.

michael

how is adam smith doing? didn't you see A Beautiful Mind?

[Leopard]

Originally posted by Bob_Dobbs, how is adam smith doing? didn't you see A Beautiful Mind?

???

[Autophage]

What annoys me is when people refer to the 'freedom not to be harmed'. That's not a freedom at all.

it is more profitable for all to act in the interest of themsevles and the whole, not just themselves.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Originally posted by Bob_Dobbs, it is more profitable for all to act in the interest of themsevles and the whole, not just themselves.

Sorry, you are going to have to break this one down. How is it profitable to me to do someone else's work for them?

[Leopard]

Mr. Dobbs statement is basically the fundaments of the Free Market - people increase their wealth by satisfying other peoples desires/demands. All parties in a given voluntary transaction benefit.

[Osborn F Enready]

Or he is a socialist? I would like clarification too.