US Blunders Help Political Islam:

[grandpa]

US Blunders Help Political Islam:
Political Islam takes center stage since 9-11 - Yahoo! News
"RIYADH (Reuters) - In the five years since the September 11 attacks, U.S. intervention abroad has fed the extremism it seeks to destroy and cemented the rise of political Islam as the ideology of choice for millions in the Middle East, experts say."


How many here at Volconvo reached these same conclusions? I know I certainly did.
Another question: If possible, how long will it take for us to reverse this trend?

Grandpa h.

[PatrickHenry]

It hasn't started to reverse yet.

A change in political parties in Washington won't do it, cuz the Dems are just as wretchedly militaristic as the GOP.

I think OBL is Bush's buddy and they are playing us all for suckers. The US taxpayer gets bled dry for the expenses of the terror war and OBL gets street cred for opposing the "Crusaders." And the blood flows and the pipelines get built. No blunders...it's a well devised plan.

[grandpa]

Quote by: PatrickHenry It hasn't started to reverse yet.

Arguably, it's just beginning to gain momentum.

Quote by: PatrickHenry A change in political parties in Washington won't do it, cuz the Dems are just as wretchedly militaristic as the GOP.

Practically, yes. At election time, Kerry was even trying to out-hawk Bush in certain ways (he probably wasn't successful, but his attempts were obvious).

Grandpa h.

[lsbskins1]

I love it. On one side of the Democrats, we have the Republicans telling everyone the world will come to a bloody end if the Democrats get power and on the other, people who believe they are exactally the same as the Republicans. Funny. You know, it may be logical to say they are equally damaging in different ways. It would be supportable to say that both parties have an equal interest in maintaining the two party system and that two party system is a problem (the first part of the statement being the supportable part). But there is some pretty hard evidence out there that they do actually have points of competition and ideological differences.

[grandpa]

Quote by: lsbskins1 I love it. On one side of the Democrats, we have the Republicans telling everyone the world will come to a bloody end if the Democrats get power and on the other, people who believe they are exactally the same as the Republicans.

They aren't exactly the same, but the similarities are obvious.
Whether you support the election system or not:
Is it possible to get better educated voters to the polls?

Grandpa h.

[lsbskins1]

Possible, yes. Likely, no. As much as it pains me, being the liberal, progressive humanist that I am, I believe that most people are too lazy to do the work they need to do to be reasonably well informed participants in the system. That being said, I think a 2 party democratic republic offers the best ballance available. I just wish we economically leaned a little more towards a socialist ideal and a little less towards dog-eat-dog capitalism. And please remember that I said "lean". I'm not looking for a stepping stone to a completely state controlled economy. That would be bad,bad, bad.

[Osborn F Enready]

Grandpa said: US Blunders Help Political Islam:

I say:
I agree, and would encourage those with doubt to do some reading in the history of Americas involvement in Middle East politics from a non-partisan perspective. ("Overthrow, A century of regime change from Hawaii to Iraq", by Stephen Kinzer is a great start)

We are as bad now, as England was in its days of imperialism and colonization, except our armies and navies are 600 times more lethal.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I agree, and would encourage those with doubt to do some reading in the history of Americas involvement in Middle East politics from a non-partisan perspective. ("Overthrow, A century of regime change from Hawaii to Iraq", by Stephen Kinzer is a great start) We are as bad now, as England was in its days of imperialism and colonization, except our armies and navies are 600 times more lethal.

Another thing to note is how well antigovernment philosophy fits into this picture. Radicals keep on predicting governments will expand against foreign/domestic populations, and it just gets proven every day.

Grandpa h.

[Lee]

U. S. intervention has fed the extremism which it seeks to destroy.

On a PBS news program last night, a woman from Afghanistan was talking about how corrupt the government army is. When the soldiers frisk you, they keep your money.
People were at first quite happy to diperse the rule of the Taliban.
But now dissillusionment with government corruption has set in. The Taliban has crossed the border again to engage militarily with U. N. forces.
The woman went on to say that now even though the Islami rules of the Taliban were strict and harsh, at least they were consistent. One could go out at night and not worry about being robbed by the government.

[Lee]

How about the saying. That when people get pushed they push back.
Still, with regards to cementing a political Islam. In Iraq, the Sunnis and Shi'ites seem to be killing each other thereby fragmenting an implied unity of political Islam.

[shield772]

The peoples of the Middle east always have been Islamic and probably always will be, there has never been an intent spoken or unspoken that this was a crusade to bring Christianity to the Middle East, it's about removing dictators from power, dictators that give material support and asylum to our enemies. and possibly bring some form of democracy and stability to the region.

[Osborn F Enready]

Yes, our version of democracy that we have brought has done so well for Puerto Rico, Cuba, the Phillipines, Nicaragua, Panama, Vietnam, Iran, Haiti, etc....

Clearly a mission with noble intent.