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VXerick · Apr 28, 2004, 03:21 pm

My sentiments, exactly. But I didn't write the article. Still it is amusing though realistic, regardless. I think Kerry is going to blow himself out of the water, before the Democratic National Convention and I hope someone else is nominated as the Democratic candidate. It would make for a fairly short campaign for that "other" person.

I still wish Howard Dean was the designated candidate. Poor Howard! Things haven't been the same in politics since the Iowa primaries.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0417/mondo1.php

jcgadfly · Apr 28, 2004, 04:14 pm

The DNC won't do anything. They're still tied to the DLC who believe that "Talk like a Democrat, govern like a Republican" is a working strategy.

Yes, I'm one of those who believes Bill Clinton was the best Republican president we ever had.

Apr 28, 2004, 05:14 pm

I wanted Dean to be the Dems candidate. He more clearly defined the Dem. party and what they believe. Kerry is far more politique. He is having a hard time covering up his record and the Dem's core belief system. I think the Dems will leave him as their candidate because, with the Clintons sill in charge of the party, they really don't want a Dem to win in 04. They REALLY want Hillery to run and win in 08. Certainly not the majority of Dems, but those who are pulling the strings.

Mia · Apr 28, 2004, 06:04 pm

You know, I want Hillary too. But not if we have to have four more years of Bush to get her.

I wish Dems would have picked someone but Kerry but he is the lesser of too evils.

I fear that his similarity to Bush will push those who might have otherwise gone democratic to other tickets, which is just like voting for Bush.

I'm worried for us.....

Apr 28, 2004, 07:07 pm

I didn't mean to suggest that I supported Hillary. I was just explaining what I think is going on in the higher echelons of the Dem. party. I agree that W. has been a disaster for the cause of individual liberty in this country, and uncontrolled spending. But, looking at this from the standpoint of someone who supports the Constitution, individual liberty and economic freedom, As bad as W. has been I think Hillery would be 5-6 thousand times worse. IMO she is the most dangerous politician holding office in DC.
Kerry is just a dud.

VXerick · Apr 28, 2004, 08:28 pm

I think they're all dreadful. Howard Dean was the only bright light of the entire political scene. Without Howard, I'll probably vote for Ralph Nader and I really can't stand him and I hate his politics. I suppose I could write-in someone - maybe even Howard Dean.

Suburbanite · Apr 28, 2004, 09:15 pm

yea, I think just for yokes I'll write in H Dean as well.

bishop · Apr 28, 2004, 09:18 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mia,
I'm worried for us.....

i wouldn't be overly worried.. bush has been losing his intellectual support (cato and heritage have been blasting him for months now). and i don't think swing voters are particularly pleased with iraq (both pre-war and present)..

it isn't going to be a cakewalk for either man.. i hope bush isn't reelected though.

Jet · Apr 29, 2004, 01:58 am

That's just wishful thinking. Kerry's the nominee, period, barring a major scandal that dwarfs all political scandals since Watergate, in which case the nominee will probably be the runner-up in the primary, i.e. Edwards (Dean doesn't have enough delegates to win a brokered convention).

As for Howard Dean, he's not the angel that he seems. The guy is a full-time opportunist, whose opinions change according to political winds; the prime example is his record on religion (in March 2003 he was "fairly secular"; by December he'd become a "committed believer"), but his record on Iraq is pretty shady, too. Hillary, too, and in fact she's even worse - and besides, she has already served two terms, so she's barred from becoming president again

.

Quote:

Yes, I'm one of those who believes Bill Clinton was the best Republican president we ever had.

Nope - at least in some respects, Teddy Roosevelt was better...

Quote:

As bad as W. has been I think Hillery would be 5-6 thousand times worse. IMO she is the most dangerous politician holding office in DC.

Why? In what way is she such a menace to liberty?

gregh · Apr 29, 2004, 02:16 am

i never liked Dean in the least bit. I must be honest in saying that Edwards was my pick. However i did work with the Clark campaign some so if my primary would actually matter he would have my vote.

I do not see anything wrong with Kerry however, he has really started to grow on me.

Also as someone who has grown up in Arkansas, hearing the name Clinton since I was walking, i am sort of partial to them. Both Bill and Hillary. I'd vote for Hillary in a second, and if Bush wins I will cast my vote for her in 2008, and probably work on her campaign

harumscarum · Apr 29, 2004, 09:21 am

I have never understood why some people have so much hate for Hillary. I think Dean got screwed over on that rally where they filtered out the audience sound. I am not sure how many of you saw the real footage (ABC is the only news that I saw show it) of it but in reality you could barely hear him talking (yelling) because the crowd was so loud.

dismal · Apr 29, 2004, 10:08 am

Quote:

Originally posted by gregh,
I do not see anything wrong with Kerry however, he has really started to grow on me.

Seriously? You don't think there's a problem when "do you own a SUV?" becomes a challenging question of nuance? For most people it's a yes/no matter.

VXerick · Apr 29, 2004, 10:23 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jet,

Why? In what way is she such a menace to liberty?

She's a socialist and socialism, while having a modicum of rights, it's not the freedoms explicit in the US Constitution. When Socialism becomes the norm in the US, the Constitution will have to be scuttled.

I don't mean the aggregate of new laws proliferating the scene. They are already unconstitutional because they are all based upon faulty court decisions. A continuance of that stance, will in effect allow socialism to become the norm without Hillary bringing it to us via a Presidency. She of her own, without a Congress to work through, would have a hard time becoming the dictator she may wish to be. Except for those EOs, maybe.

Jet · Apr 29, 2004, 01:38 pm

Hillary? A socialist? How so? To me she seems like a manipulative opportunist who cares about power more than anything else, and hence she lacks the ideological fanaticism that is required of communist usurpation (in Eastern Europe many dictators were dictators first and communists second, but that's only because of Soviet pressure).

As for the US constitution, you first have to justify why everything it says is good, and only then equate unconstitutionality with badness. Further, as "faulty" as court decisions may be, they still determine what is legal and what is not in this country. If the Supreme Court permits outlawing the Democratic party, then this is the law of the land; the idea in the system is to have checks and balances that will prevent such a decision.

dotcoma · Apr 29, 2004, 01:56 pm

Hillary is a criminal, just like her husband and her bosses, the Bushes. I totally disagreed with Dean on nearly EVERY issue. But he seemed like an honest and moral person in spite of his shortsightedness. Kerry is skull and bones: off the radar when it comes to legitamacy, as far as I'm concerned. They're admitted pirates and hold no allegance to the United States. Troskiites...False opposition bred from birth to act as a smoke screen for the real source of power in Europe. THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY IS, THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY GOES.

PatrickHenry · Apr 29, 2004, 02:06 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by VXerick,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (VXerick,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Jet,

Why? In what way is she such a menace to liberty?

She's a socialist and socialism, while having a modicum of rights, it's not the freedoms explicit in the US Constitution. When Socialism becomes the norm in the US, the Constitution will have to be scuttled.

I don't mean the aggregate of new laws proliferating the scene. They are already unconstitutional because they are all based upon faulty court decisions. A continuance of that stance, will in effect allow socialism to become the norm without Hillary bringing it to us via a Presidency. She of her own, without a Congress to work through, would have a hard time becoming the dictator she may wish to be. Except for those EOs, maybe.

[/b][/quote]

What don't you understand about the State of Emergency? The president has all power in his/her hands. The Constitution was "scuttled" back in 1933. Where have you been?

Jet · Apr 29, 2004, 02:09 pm

If you're talking about executive orders, then as has been said on this forum at least once, there are two different bodies that can overrule executive orders, namely Congress and the Supreme Court.

dotcoma · Apr 29, 2004, 02:17 pm

Congress has been compromised. The Supreme Court goes duck hunting with the executive.

Jet · Apr 29, 2004, 02:29 pm

Would you care to elaborate on that?

dotcoma · Apr 29, 2004, 03:23 pm

Congress wasn't even allowed to READ the patriot act before they were intimidated into voting for it. They are WAY out of the loop at this point. And go read The Franklin Coverup. You will learn that politicians are usually COMPLETELY partisan, marginalized and eventually "discredited" or they are blackmailed or compromised in such a way that they are powerless to make changes or influence government.

Apr 28, 2004, 06:04 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	You know, I want Hillary too. But not if we have to have four more years of Bush to get her. I wish Dems would have picked someone but Kerry but he is the lesser of too evils. I fear that his similarity to Bush will push those who might have otherwise gone democratic to other tickets, which is just like voting for Bush. I'm worried for us..... "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Apr 29, 2004, 02:16 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
gregh Molten Ash Posts: 28	i never liked Dean in the least bit. I must be honest in saying that Edwards was my pick. However i did work with the Clark campaign some so if my primary would actually matter he would have my vote. I do not see anything wrong with Kerry however, he has really started to grow on me. Also as someone who has grown up in Arkansas, hearing the name Clinton since I was walking, i am sort of partial to them. Both Bill and Hillary. I'd vote for Hillary in a second, and if Bush wins I will cast my vote for her in 2008, and probably work on her campaign Center for better government Political Book Club

Apr 29, 2004, 09:21 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
harumscarum Igneous Magma Posts: 183	I have never understood why some people have so much hate for Hillary. I think Dean got screwed over on that rally where they filtered out the audience sound. I am not sure how many of you saw the real footage (ABC is the only news that I saw show it) of it but in reality you could barely hear him talking (yelling) because the crowd was so loud. under construction....

Apr 29, 2004, 01:38 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Jet Molten Ash Location: NoCal Posts: 106	Hillary? A socialist? How so? To me she seems like a manipulative opportunist who cares about power more than anything else, and hence she lacks the ideological fanaticism that is required of communist usurpation (in Eastern Europe many dictators were dictators first and communists second, but that's only because of Soviet pressure). As for the US constitution, you first have to justify why everything it says is good, and only then equate unconstitutionality with badness. Further, as "faulty" as court decisions may be, they still determine what is legal and what is not in this country. If the Supreme Court permits outlawing the Democratic party, then this is the law of the land; the idea in the system is to have checks and balances that will prevent such a decision. The world exists. Everything else is just a corollary. Just an irregular Joe... Visit Open Source Politics or my site

Apr 29, 2004, 02:09 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Jet Molten Ash Location: NoCal Posts: 106	If you're talking about executive orders, then as has been said on this forum at least once, there are two different bodies that can overrule executive orders, namely Congress and the Supreme Court. The world exists. Everything else is just a corollary. Just an irregular Joe... Visit Open Source Politics or my site

Apr 28, 2004, 03:21 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
VXerick Igneous Magma Location: PA Posts: 328	My sentiments, exactly. But I didn't write the article. Still it is amusing though realistic, regardless. I think Kerry is going to blow himself out of the water, before the Democratic National Convention and I hope someone else is nominated as the Democratic candidate. It would make for a fairly short campaign for that "other" person. I still wish Howard Dean was the designated candidate. Poor Howard! Things haven't been the same in politics since the Iowa primaries. http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0417/mondo1.php

Apr 28, 2004, 04:14 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
jcgadfly Molten Ash Location: Bloomington IN Posts: 103	The DNC won't do anything. They're still tied to the DLC who believe that "Talk like a Democrat, govern like a Republican" is a working strategy. Yes, I'm one of those who believes Bill Clinton was the best Republican president we ever had.

Apr 28, 2004, 05:14 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	I wanted Dean to be the Dems candidate. He more clearly defined the Dem. party and what they believe. Kerry is far more politique. He is having a hard time covering up his record and the Dem's core belief system. I think the Dems will leave him as their candidate because, with the Clintons sill in charge of the party, they really don't want a Dem to win in 04. They REALLY want Hillery to run and win in 08. Certainly not the majority of Dems, but those who are pulling the strings.

Apr 28, 2004, 07:07 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	I didn't mean to suggest that I supported Hillary. I was just explaining what I think is going on in the higher echelons of the Dem. party. I agree that W. has been a disaster for the cause of individual liberty in this country, and uncontrolled spending. But, looking at this from the standpoint of someone who supports the Constitution, individual liberty and economic freedom, As bad as W. has been I think Hillery would be 5-6 thousand times worse. IMO she is the most dangerous politician holding office in DC. Kerry is just a dud.

Apr 28, 2004, 08:28 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
VXerick Igneous Magma Location: PA Posts: 328	I think they're all dreadful. Howard Dean was the only bright light of the entire political scene. Without Howard, I'll probably vote for Ralph Nader and I really can't stand him and I hate his politics. I suppose I could write-in someone - maybe even Howard Dean.

Apr 28, 2004, 09:15 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	yea, I think just for yokes I'll write in H Dean as well.

Apr 29, 2004, 01:56 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	Hillary is a criminal, just like her husband and her bosses, the Bushes. I totally disagreed with Dean on nearly EVERY issue. But he seemed like an honest and moral person in spite of his shortsightedness. Kerry is skull and bones: off the radar when it comes to legitamacy, as far as I'm concerned. They're admitted pirates and hold no allegance to the United States. Troskiites...False opposition bred from birth to act as a smoke screen for the real source of power in Europe. THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY IS, THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY GOES.

Apr 29, 2004, 02:17 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	Congress has been compromised. The Supreme Court goes duck hunting with the executive.

Apr 29, 2004, 02:29 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Jet Molten Ash Location: NoCal Posts: 106	Would you care to elaborate on that? The world exists. Everything else is just a corollary. Just an irregular Joe... Visit Open Source Politics or my site

Apr 29, 2004, 03:23 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	Congress wasn't even allowed to READ the patriot act before they were intimidated into voting for it. They are WAY out of the loop at this point. And go read The Franklin Coverup. You will learn that politicians are usually COMPLETELY partisan, marginalized and eventually "discredited" or they are blackmailed or compromised in such a way that they are powerless to make changes or influence government.