FBI Seeks Net Wiretapping Rights

[Evil Baby]

Originally posted by Jet, Oh, a lot of countries do that, not just Syria. Canada, Britain, Australia, and New Zealand cooperate with the USA on Echelon; Russia still arrests political dissidents; China is far from a model country privacy-wise; and so on.

Are you sure that Canada, U.S., Australia, New Zealand and Britain have desginated backdoors to your system?


I know they capture whatever you send over the network and if its not encrypted well that's your problem, but I'm not one to believe these governments at the moment have instant backdoors into every system that they desire.


I could see it in China, Russia, and Syria but not for most Western Countries.

[Evil Baby]

and yes, about the only thing that would help you is a good firewall, that way you would always know when they are connected to you, but the average person doesn't know how to run thier computer and I think they would feel very violated.

[Jet]

Are you sure that Canada, U.S., Australia, New Zealand and Britain have desginated backdoors to your system?

No, but I'm not sure the US does it, either. If the Patriot Act powers have anything to do with Echelon, then Canada, the UK, Oz, and NZ are involved. I'm not sure whether Carnivore is US-only or involving other English-speaking countries.

[Osborn F Enready]

Jet said: Quoting me: " The patriot act is a crime against all CITIZENS, perpetrated by BOTH MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES?"

Please explain.


Here is my explanation in depth Jet.
http://www.volconvo.com/forums/index.php?s...topic=1118&st=0

[Jet]

I stopped reading at "fact" #3 because it made a factual error (omitting the 16th amendment) and a logical one (considering the intent of the founders when the relevant issue had been amended). Believe it or not, but there exist valid interpretations of the constitution other than historical strict constructionism.

[VXerick]

Originally posted by Cadre,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cadre,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Perhaps you have too much faith in your government, pry open that third eye of yours![/b]

I have faith in the people (some more than others) and in our Constitution. Not the politicians. There isn't one of them who cares the least for anyone who cannot somehow give them more of what they want.

And I did not say our rights and liberties aren't being taken away. I just put the burden on politicians (congress and judges to be more specific) rather than on Presidents who are not almighty God, although you'd think so sometimes, by the power some people think they have.

Originally posted by Cadre,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cadre,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It's a timid line to walk, you must be aware of these conspiracy theories, to know what is overboard, and what is feasable.[/b]

Timidity is not how to keep our freedoms. It's always let someone else do it, I'm too busy, I can't be bothered. Or the reverse, oh, I'll join a protest, get high and burn the flag. Too many people have lost their sense of purpose or don't really know exactly what it is.

<!--QuoteBegin-Cadre,@
You think the Rawandan's (pre 1985, before declared a country) could have known that the Hutu's were about to commit acts of genocidal ethnical cleansing on the Tutsis. The current government allowed it to happen, because they were greedy, corrupt strawmen lacking absolute morals who saw benefit in the terror.[/quote] Yep, all the things that make for an insurrection. Africa is not a good example of how things should have been done. The colonial powers kept the native people in a slave state and hardly allowed them any education. Then they pulled out and left them in a sinking ship, unable and unwilling to govern themselves.

You can't keep people dependent for decades, even centuries and then expect them to pick up where the occupation left off. If you have something viable to work with, this can be accomplished such as the US occupation of Germany and Japan after WWII. It should have worked in Iraq because even though they have been under a brutal dictatorship for 30 years, they are an educated people. But that education also depended a lot on Islamic teaching which doesn't impress me as being exactly what people need to have a competent government.

<!--QuoteBegin-Cadre,
Not even the U.N intervened.[/quote] And you know what, the UN is the biggest strawman of all. And I'm sure they wear tinfoil hats.

[Osborn F Enready]

LOL you said it yourself Jet, YOU STOPPED READING.

Attempt free thinking a little, and you would see I cover that issue in depth.

[Jet]

If I did it becasue you told me to, it wouldn't be free thinking, would it?

[Osborn F Enready]

No, actually reading past something that was not yet fully explained is free thinking.

To totally discredit a text because it happens to not immediately recognize something "you" deem important, kind of closes your mind to anything you dont agree with esentially doesn't it?

LOL

[Cadre]

Originally posted by VXerick,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (VXerick,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And I did not say our rights and liberties aren't being taken away. I just put the burden on politicians (congress and judges to be more specific) rather than on Presidents who are not almighty God, although you'd think so sometimes, by the power some people think they have. <!--QuoteBegin-Cadre, It's a timid line to walk, you must be aware of these conspiracy theories, to know what is overboard, and what is feasable.

Timidity is not how to keep our freedoms. It's always let someone else do it, I'm too busy, I can't be bothered. Or the reverse, oh, I'll join a protest, get high and burn the flag. Too many people have lost their sense of purpose or don't really know exactly what it is.

[/b][/quote]

Exactly.

You only reinforced these points. Stay open minded to conspiracy theories. I said nothing of rights being robbed, and privacy invaded. Only to accept that personal agendas exist, and are pursued relentlessly.

I agree though, I am not at odds with 'people' or the constitution, only the system which allows such power awarded to specific individuals who face the temptation of abusing it every damn day of their lives.

I think you misinterpreted my statement above. That there is a large difference between distinguishing irrelevant and absurdly hysterical conspiracy theories from those which are feasable and factual. I said nothing of timidity being a defense of our freedoms.