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mikemadman · Apr 28, 2004, 03:01 am

Why have more poeple died this month fighting these insurgents then all the people that dies in the war against Sadam? I thought Saddam had a army of around 1 million troops, and they were "fairly" funded. I was under the impression that these insurgents were few and not organized and not very well funded. So why have more of our soldiers died this month?

Someone please explain.

UaGreek1286 · Apr 28, 2004, 03:05 am

It was very easy for our troops to attack Sadams Army because most of them had on uniforms and us for the most part traditional military tactics. I mean it is realy easy to blow the shit out of a military base. The thing with the insurgance is that there fighting a gorilla war which is much harder to fight becaues they don't use traditional tactics. It is a historical "truth" that gorilla army's give trubel to traditinal armys. In our own revelution the British said we fought "damn un British" because we used Indian techniques like hiding behind trees instead of lining up and geting blasted buy the british army

PatrickHenry · Apr 28, 2004, 03:07 am

The Iraqi generals guarding Baghdad were paid off, and the defense collapsed. These guys are what we would call patriots, defending the nation, if the tables were turned and the US was occupied. Of course since they are Iraqis, they are "terrorists". They fight for principle, the principle of sovereignty. The US would have been better off getting out quickly, but that didn't fit in with having garrisons and airfields to control the area for the foreseeable future. What's gonna happen now? Lots more people are gonna die...

Mia · Apr 28, 2004, 03:07 am

Not to mention Saddam's army rolled over for us - I mean, come on. That war was not a war. Many say a deal was made.

edit: I was typing at the same time as PH. My response was to the one above his :-)

PH - I'm not sure they're all nationalists.

Apr 28, 2004, 03:10 am

Saddam's army, prior to the invasion did not number one million, not in anyones dreams.

"Weapons and manpower remain at about the same levels as immediately after the Gulf War, according to London's International Institute for Strategic Studies, which publishes annual detailed estimates of military strength worldwide.

Across the board, the Iraqi military is smaller - down 618,000 from a 1990 high of 1 million active-duty forces; down 2,800 main battle tanks from 5,500 in 1990; down 1,500 towed artillery pieces, half the 1990 number; and down 197 fighters and fighter-bombers from 507 in 1990. These figures largely agree with separate analyses conducted by the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency.

In addition to the destruction wrought by the Gulf War, Iraq has chafed under an international embargo on arms imports and oil exports, cutting off easy access to a country that before 1990 bought $2 billion to $3 billion in weapons every year. Iraq has faced pressure as well from the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq to eliminate its weapons of mass destruction."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/nirq028.htm

mikemadman · Apr 28, 2004, 03:15 am

So our American millitary is not all powerful and God like?

I dont want to sound egotistical I am not even that pridefull, but I had come to my own personal unsubstantiated conclusion that "We" could kick any countries ass with our eyes closed. Well maybe not that easily but, we could win any war with any ONE country.

Am I wrong on this assumption?

Apr 28, 2004, 03:23 am

The US military is extraordinarily powerful, it not soley about size, it's about weapons and weapons systems, intelligence and so on. Awesome military power, but almost useless in preventing attacks by terrorists, just like the Magniot line didn't stop the Germans.

And let's face it, no one in their right mind will confront the US head on, that's why terrorism is in the in thing. And based on the current administrations performance, things will get a lot worse for the US. And it isn't just about the military, its also about economies and money to finaance the military, and that is where the US is most vulnerable.

Let me put it this way, how many friends will the US have without its wealth?

Mia · Apr 28, 2004, 03:28 am

Do we have any wealth? I thought we were in debt to the tune of 14 trillion dollars. If we're buying off half the world and attacking the other half, aren't we going to run out?

VXerick · Apr 28, 2004, 02:31 pm

The reason the war isn't going well for the USA is because it's being fought as a PC war. It's being fought with poll numbers in mind. It's being fought while gauging the level of protests. All the reasons a war can't be won. Afghanistan wasn't that much different, except we had a different mix of troops there. America will never ever win a war again, as it did WWII, because every war since then has been fought because of, or to influence politics.

Apr 28, 2004, 06:20 pm

Impenitent · Apr 28, 2004, 09:57 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mia,
Do we have any wealth? I thought we were in debt to the tune of 14 trillion dollars. If we're buying off half the world and attacking the other half, aren't we going to run out?

:rolleyes: 14? try half that...

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm

Evil Baby · Apr 28, 2004, 11:39 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mikemadman,
So our American millitary is not all powerful and God like?

I dont want to sound egotistical I am not even that pridefull, but I had come to my own personal unsubstantiated conclusion that "We" could kick any countries ass with our eyes closed. Well maybe not that easily but, we could win any war with any ONE country.

Am I wrong on this assumption?

I know its already been said but I will state it a little differently. The U.S. could whipe their asses with this resistence if they could get away with it. I mean honestly the U.S. could just bomb the city to complete rubble and still have enough to work over the entire region. However they have to keep public opinion in mind. Bush failed in making Saddam and Iraq the ulitimate enemy. He didn't have the luxury of Iraq being as "evil" as Nazi Germany so he can't just float in and bomb the shit out of the country and get away with it.

GreatWyrm of Babylon · Apr 29, 2004, 12:01 am

The national debt is money that our government owes itself through charging interest on loans taken out to itself, where people get the idea that we owe this money to the rest of the world I can only blame public education.

Most of this debt (in years not $) came about after WW1 when the US was in the business of covering the war debt. Why we thought we culd carry Europe I do not know. But then the great depression hit and few countries paid back their loans. Many countries became angry with the US because our idiot government was charging many countries gold to buy food with, and then the Federal Reserve Bank was failing to print more money that could have been supported by this additional gold. The Federal Reserve Bamk later claimed they were holding back the funds for "A real emergency". So while the rest of the world was losing their economic base because they were having to spend their gold for food, America was sitting on a stack of gold and not puting it into circulation as currency. This may be the real reason Europe hates us.

But, to claim that the US is a broke country surviving off of the charity of the rest of the world is crazy. The Gross Domestic Product of the USA was 10.45 Trillion last year. Our buying and selling constitutes the largest share of the world market. There would be no world economy w/o the USA.

Apr 28, 2004, 03:01 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
mikemadman Sedimentary Rock Location: SoCal Posts: 17	Why have more poeple died this month fighting these insurgents then all the people that dies in the war against Sadam? I thought Saddam had a army of around 1 million troops, and they were "fairly" funded. I was under the impression that these insurgents were few and not organized and not very well funded. So why have more of our soldiers died this month? Someone please explain. Yes, I know I don't know how to spell. What can I say, I was born in the era of spellcheckers.

Apr 28, 2004, 03:07 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,437	The Iraqi generals guarding Baghdad were paid off, and the defense collapsed. These guys are what we would call patriots, defending the nation, if the tables were turned and the US was occupied. Of course since they are Iraqis, they are "terrorists". They fight for principle, the principle of sovereignty. The US would have been better off getting out quickly, but that didn't fit in with having garrisons and airfields to control the area for the foreseeable future. What's gonna happen now? Lots more people are gonna die... "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Apr 28, 2004, 03:07 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	Not to mention Saddam's army rolled over for us - I mean, come on. That war was not a war. Many say a deal was made. edit: I was typing at the same time as PH. My response was to the one above his :-) PH - I'm not sure they're all nationalists. "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Apr 28, 2004, 03:15 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
mikemadman Sedimentary Rock Location: SoCal Posts: 17	So our American millitary is not all powerful and God like? I dont want to sound egotistical I am not even that pridefull, but I had come to my own personal unsubstantiated conclusion that "We" could kick any countries ass with our eyes closed. Well maybe not that easily but, we could win any war with any ONE country. Am I wrong on this assumption? Yes, I know I don't know how to spell. What can I say, I was born in the era of spellcheckers.

Apr 28, 2004, 03:28 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	Do we have any wealth? I thought we were in debt to the tune of 14 trillion dollars. If we're buying off half the world and attacking the other half, aren't we going to run out? "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Apr 28, 2004, 03:05 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
UaGreek1286 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 1	It was very easy for our troops to attack Sadams Army because most of them had on uniforms and us for the most part traditional military tactics. I mean it is realy easy to blow the shit out of a military base. The thing with the insurgance is that there fighting a gorilla war which is much harder to fight becaues they don't use traditional tactics. It is a historical "truth" that gorilla army's give trubel to traditinal armys. In our own revelution the British said we fought "damn un British" because we used Indian techniques like hiding behind trees instead of lining up and geting blasted buy the british army

Apr 28, 2004, 03:10 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
PeterWolf Guest Posts: n/a	Saddam's army, prior to the invasion did not number one million, not in anyones dreams. "Weapons and manpower remain at about the same levels as immediately after the Gulf War, according to London's International Institute for Strategic Studies, which publishes annual detailed estimates of military strength worldwide. Across the board, the Iraqi military is smaller - down 618,000 from a 1990 high of 1 million active-duty forces; down 2,800 main battle tanks from 5,500 in 1990; down 1,500 towed artillery pieces, half the 1990 number; and down 197 fighters and fighter-bombers from 507 in 1990. These figures largely agree with separate analyses conducted by the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency. In addition to the destruction wrought by the Gulf War, Iraq has chafed under an international embargo on arms imports and oil exports, cutting off easy access to a country that before 1990 bought $2 billion to $3 billion in weapons every year. Iraq has faced pressure as well from the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq to eliminate its weapons of mass destruction." http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/nirq028.htm

Apr 28, 2004, 03:23 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
PeterWolf Guest Posts: n/a	The US military is extraordinarily powerful, it not soley about size, it's about weapons and weapons systems, intelligence and so on. Awesome military power, but almost useless in preventing attacks by terrorists, just like the Magniot line didn't stop the Germans. And let's face it, no one in their right mind will confront the US head on, that's why terrorism is in the in thing. And based on the current administrations performance, things will get a lot worse for the US. And it isn't just about the military, its also about economies and money to finaance the military, and that is where the US is most vulnerable. Let me put it this way, how many friends will the US have without its wealth?

Apr 28, 2004, 02:31 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
VXerick Igneous Magma Location: PA Posts: 328	The reason the war isn't going well for the USA is because it's being fought as a PC war. It's being fought with poll numbers in mind. It's being fought while gauging the level of protests. All the reasons a war can't be won. Afghanistan wasn't that much different, except we had a different mix of troops there. America will never ever win a war again, as it did WWII, because every war since then has been fought because of, or to influence politics.

Apr 28, 2004, 06:20 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	oops

Apr 29, 2004, 12:01 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
GreatWyrm of Babylon Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848	The national debt is money that our government owes itself through charging interest on loans taken out to itself, where people get the idea that we owe this money to the rest of the world I can only blame public education. Most of this debt (in years not $) came about after WW1 when the US was in the business of covering the war debt. Why we thought we culd carry Europe I do not know. But then the great depression hit and few countries paid back their loans. Many countries became angry with the US because our idiot government was charging many countries gold to buy food with, and then the Federal Reserve Bank was failing to print more money that could have been supported by this additional gold. The Federal Reserve Bamk later claimed they were holding back the funds for "A real emergency". So while the rest of the world was losing their economic base because they were having to spend their gold for food, America was sitting on a stack of gold and not puting it into circulation as currency. This may be the real reason Europe hates us. But, to claim that the US is a broke country surviving off of the charity of the rest of the world is crazy. The Gross Domestic Product of the USA was 10.45 Trillion last year. Our buying and selling constitutes the largest share of the world market. There would be no world economy w/o the USA. Logical Fallicies Link