The Separation of School and State

[Osborn F Enready]

School and State
https://honestedu.org/page1.php

Well, here is a site SURE to fire up the Public Education fans, and lend credibility to the people who are against it.

Here is the Separation of School and State websites:
School and State
https://honestedu.org/page1.php

I would ask if you support the idea, please sign the "Public Proclamation". Our voices are being heard.


Also, has anyone watched John Stossels reports (20/20) on "Stupid in America"?
ABC News: John Stossel's 'Stupid in America'

What do you folks think?

[Demozthenes]

America is not stupid, just lazy.

[PatrickHenry]

I have been down with this concept since before finding this board, Volconvo. Vin Suprynowicz talked me into it. Public schools instill the fear of dissent in their students.

Not that all private schools promote dissent, but at least their funding isn't sourced in the taxes controlled by the State. Since I oppose the State, I oppose their indoctrination camps...

[Osborn F Enready]

Demozthenes said: America is not stupid, just lazy

.

I say:
The name is meant to catch intrest, because it is bold. Did you see the report on 20/20 or read about it from the link? Did you see the topic, and point of the article and investigation? Did you see the depth of anger stirred by John Stossel by teachers unions, mainly in New York?

[Osborn F Enready]

Patrick said: I have been down with this concept since before finding this board, Volconvo. Vin Suprynowicz talked me into it. Public schools instill the fear of dissent in their students. Not that all private schools promote dissent, but at least their funding isn't sourced in the taxes controlled by the State. Since I oppose the State, I oppose their indoctrination camps...

I say:
I was wondering who else knew of these sites, or organizations? I heard about them on a newer local Libertarian radio talk show here in Toledo. The guy who spoke for the organization, was very well spoken, made critical topic points, and defended every intent of the goals. Very impressive, so I had to look it up on the net.

The talk show was on 1370AM the "Brian Wilson Show".
Brian Wilson::Official Talk Show Hosts's Web Site

You can stream it live on the net between 3 and 6pm:
News Talk 1370 WSPD / Where Toledo Comes To Talk

His speech mannerisms are a bit annoying, and his voice is a LOT like Rush Limbaughs(who precedes his timeslot), but overall he does a pretty decent job of speaking to power, and recently, he basicly brought Toledo, Ohio public out to protest the waste of city money on a "bike path" in a bad place, for too much money. We won, no bike path.
The Mayor(Carlton Finkbeiner) is pretty hot, and as of late Wilson has been pestering Strickland and Blackwell (Ohio upcoming Gubernatorial Canidates from the major parties) calling them on their logic, bringing up valid questions, you know, pissing them off.

I am trying to get Wilson to talk about a direct debate challenge to Strickland and Blackwell on-air, to DEMAND the (ballot approved) Libertarian Bill Peirce be allowed to debate in the local media covered debate. Peirce is a Professor of Economics, and his background is awesome. He knows what Toledo's economy needs, and has a published plan for making it happen. Blackwell and Strickland are scared of Peirce, and they recently refused to participate in a gubernatorial forum if any other party was allowed to speak.

We really needed Brian Wilson in Toledo. Yay Brian Wilson, and thanks WSPD!

[Osborn F Enready]

Did anyone besides Patrick and I click on the links in the first post?

I am surprised at no comments.

[shield772]

I belive that private schools have standards that make the studnts struggle and achieve where public schools are constantly lowering or even aboloshing standards so as to allow anyone and everyone to pass, I don't even here of kids being held back a grade anymore they are just shuffled through. I even heard of a group that wanted to remove scores from sporting events so there would be no losers, this is absurd, there is always winners and even more losers in life, so any attempt to teach children that there aren't losers in life is criminal, and they are also teaching children that you can do that absolute minimum and still get by.

[grandpa]

Quote by: shield772 I belive that private schools have standards that make the studnts struggle and achieve where public schools are constantly lowering or even aboloshing standards so as to allow anyone and everyone to pass, I don't even here of kids being held back a grade anymore they are just shuffled through. I even heard of a group that wanted to remove scores from sporting events so there would be no losers, this is absurd, there is always winners and even more losers in life, so any attempt to teach children that there aren't losers in life is criminal, and they are also teaching children that you can do that absolute minimum and still get by.

Public schools can work (although they should not require taxes or any other kind of tuition, practically anything can work), so long as they are charter schools that allow parents to have a choice. I went to apublic school that wans't utterly terrible (and a private university that wasn't utterly perfect).
But the fault of most schools is they teach history from the viewpoint of masters of great wealth and power. They train kids into the system instead of granting them a full education of all the views and issues in the world.
For that matter, I think the grading process ultimately cheapens the education experience. I think teaching kids that there are "winners and losers" is absurd.
That childish, oversimplified way of viewing life is not what education should be about.

Grandpa h.

[shield772]

Quote by: grandpa Public schools can work (although they should not require taxes or any other kind of tuition, practically anything can work), so long as they are charter schools that allow parents to have a choice. I went to apublic school that wans't utterly terrible (and a private university that wasn't utterly perfect). But the fault of most schools is they teach history from the viewpoint of masters of great wealth and power. They train kids into the system instead of granting them a full education of all the views and issues in the world. For that matter, I think the grading process ultimately cheapens the education experience. I think teaching kids that there are "winners and losers" is absurd. That childish, oversimplified way of viewing life is not what education should be about. Grandpa h.

Your kidding right? if there are no grades how do you know if they are learning, achievment takes hard work not the minimum of effort, and an education system that lowers standards so that nobody gets their feelings hurt is absurd. I think you can achieve anything if you work hard enough and if your best is c's or b's then so be it but at least create an atmosphere that teaches children that you must give your best in everything they do, from school to work to life. Life is full of dissappointments and failures and they should learn it early.

[grandpa]

Quote by: shield772 Your kidding right? if there are no grades how do you know if they are learning, achievment takes hard work not the minimum of effort, and an education system that lowers standards so that nobody gets their feelings hurt is absurd.

No, I'm not kidding. Defining education as winning "points" cheapens the experience, which is why so many people get turne doff in the process. It helps make our education system one of wasted skills and efforts. How do you know if people are learning? If they show any kind of learning, of course. I didn't say achievement never requires a lot of hard work.
But if someone is fixing their car do they need someone watching over them with a pen and pad, grading their efforts or do they just need guidance when they ask for help? You don't call them a loser, you show them how to do something right.
The grading system embarasses students and turns them off, which is why I think education
needs a lot of further work regardless of any kind of funding.
The grading system seems to exist primarily to teach obedience and to punish people for not learning something quickly enough. And, surprise surprise! If someone doesn't learn the right lesson quickly enough they'll either pay more money to stay in it or possibly even be kicked out entirely. That's a clear mockery of education.
The grade system keeps ignorance up and running.
I don't think parents sending children to school should be like entering their dogs into a dog show.

Quote by: shield772 I think you can achieve anything if you work hard enough and if your best is c's or b's then so be it but at least create an atmosphere that teaches children that you must give your best in everything they do, from school to work to life. Life is full of dissappointments and failures and they should learn it early.

Do you really have so little regard for the typical person that you believe people can't comprehend disapointments and failures by experience alone?

Grandpa h.

[shield772]

Children need guidance they have to taught about consequences, it is not something that they just know, this is something you will learn as you get older and have your own children and gain real world knowledge and wisdom.

[grandpa]

Quote by: shield772 Children need guidance they have to taught about consequences, it is not something that they just know, this is something you will learn as you get older and have your own children and gain real world knowledge and wisdom.

Please read my statements before attacking them: I never said children do not need guidance--who doesn't need that? But we're talking about specific methods of doing so which I think are flawed. I know you
follow the grading system, but please address my points.

Grandpa h.