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castille · Apr 27, 2004, 01:09 pm

US warns defence of Taiwan not guaranteed
By Salamander Davoudi in Washington
Published: April 22 2004 2:36 | Last Updated: April 22 2004 2:36

Quote:

The US warned Taiwan on Wednesday that the island's defence could not be ensured if it were to unilaterally move towards independence and insisted that China's threats of military action must be taken seriously.

Quote:

When asked whether the Taiwanese were under the impression that the US was willing to defend them at all costs Mr Kelly replied: "If they heard that they misunderstood."

Quote:

Taiwan is a delicate issue for the Bush administration as the US supports its flourishing democracy but does not endorse all its ambitions, especially those that could lead to war with China.

Quote:

In recent months the White House has become concerned over comments by Chen Shui-bian, Taiwan's president, concerning the adoption of a new constitution, a move that could be perceived as edging towards independence.

Quote:

During a recent visit to China, US vice-president Dick Cheney reiterated that Washington opposed any moves by Taiwan to formalise its de facto independence.

What I find interesting is the deep parallels between this event and the invasion of Mexico....we Chinese people learn quickly from the Americans, dont we?

I read this on another forum....since I'm not a subscriber to that online newspaper, I got no idea if the source is right or not. BUt I think if you're a British student you get free subscriptions.

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?p...p=1012571727169

white rice · Apr 27, 2004, 05:41 pm

Many mainland Chinese see this as the Americans taking over the land of the Indians and proclaiming Manifest Destiny. How in the hell is taking over a landmass the size of Connecticut do any good if everything on it is bombed to hell?

There is some sensibility in the US diplomat's statements. The US obviously doesn't want Chen to rock the boat. On the inner channels they will defend them if China makes the first move. And I'm pretty sure CCP doesn't want to go to war over this, so they won't make the first move of aggression. The more Taiwan is forcing China's hand, the more the Chinese people will itch towards war. I'll blame Chen for this because the Taiwanese are divided in half on independences and most genuinely want the status quo.

Despite all this, big free US will sacrifice it's principles of democracy again if it will help prevent them from another war that they don't want....

gregh · Apr 28, 2004, 01:56 am

I think starting a war with China would be the largest mistake ever. the chineese army likely is the one army in the world that could probably go toe to toe with the US army. They do not quite have the military technology that we have.. but there are just so many in the chineese army, and imagine if they were to just start drafting up people. They could easily build an army 10 times the size of the US army.

it is a horriable situation for the US to allow itself to get into. it would be a very grave mistake I suspect.

castille · May 7, 2004, 11:29 am

The size of Taiwan doesn't hold as much importance to its strategic position (as America's unsinkable carrier).

Chen has lately made some statements that show he is willing to try and appease China - if he does that, I would assume that part of his motivation for pro-independence is merely another election stunt.

Nobody wants war - and nobody wanted war in 1914 either. But like 1914, everybody has a reason for war, and everyone has a score to settle (even the KMT has some). Lets hope it doesnt go into 1914 again.

white rice · May 8, 2004, 02:55 am

Agreed.

In that thought of an unsinkable aircraft carrier, I guess the situation would be very similar to Israel.

Political unstability has caused Taiwan's markets to fluctuate wildly. Maybe his incentive is economic. The need for a status quo is tied to the levels of prosperity both countries are enjoying at the moment. Should Chen continue his rhetoric, he'd probably face huge party losses on the Congressional level. The referendum failed when around half of the population abstained from voting, so Chen does not have a concensus or a mandate.

castille · May 9, 2004, 12:11 pm

In a way both the US and China are opposed to any kind of war (it would ruin both economies, and the fallout would also destroy Europe/Asian economies). Its not like in 1939 when it took billions of dollars to unsuccessfully bomb a single city. Today it'll take 1 missile to do the damage of 400 Lancasters.

I think, judging by Chen's recent speeches, he might calm down and keep the status quo. Unless Chen has had an extreme history, it is in his own interest to keep things stable. Taiwan's got an extremely divided society politically, and if you choose independence it will alienate almost half of Taiwan (rioting, revolts, etc).

May 17, 2004, 09:59 pm

i wouldn't board a ship for taiwan with a gun over taiwanese independence. the situation they have now is acceptable in my eyes. i think china should reform their state policies voluntarily, but i do not know if or how long that would take.

the fact remains i am not dying for taiwan.

Compugasm · Jun 8, 2004, 07:15 am

Quote:

Originally posted by castille,
We Chinese people learn quickly from the Americans, dont we?

Yeah, that's scary.

castille · Jun 8, 2004, 07:52 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Compugasm,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Compugasm,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-castille,
We Chinese people learn quickly from the Americans, dont we?

Yeah, that's scary.[/b][/quote]

Don't worry - we promise not to have any Jerry Springer-style programs

Apr 27, 2004, 05:41 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
white rice Igneous Magma Posts: 372	Many mainland Chinese see this as the Americans taking over the land of the Indians and proclaiming Manifest Destiny. How in the hell is taking over a landmass the size of Connecticut do any good if everything on it is bombed to hell? There is some sensibility in the US diplomat's statements. The US obviously doesn't want Chen to rock the boat. On the inner channels they will defend them if China makes the first move. And I'm pretty sure CCP doesn't want to go to war over this, so they won't make the first move of aggression. The more Taiwan is forcing China's hand, the more the Chinese people will itch towards war. I'll blame Chen for this because the Taiwanese are divided in half on independences and most genuinely want the status quo. Despite all this, big free US will sacrifice it's principles of democracy again if it will help prevent them from another war that they don't want.... Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

Apr 28, 2004, 01:56 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
gregh Molten Ash Posts: 28	I think starting a war with China would be the largest mistake ever. the chineese army likely is the one army in the world that could probably go toe to toe with the US army. They do not quite have the military technology that we have.. but there are just so many in the chineese army, and imagine if they were to just start drafting up people. They could easily build an army 10 times the size of the US army. it is a horriable situation for the US to allow itself to get into. it would be a very grave mistake I suspect. Center for better government Political Book Club

May 7, 2004, 11:29 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	The size of Taiwan doesn't hold as much importance to its strategic position (as America's unsinkable carrier). Chen has lately made some statements that show he is willing to try and appease China - if he does that, I would assume that part of his motivation for pro-independence is merely another election stunt. Nobody wants war - and nobody wanted war in 1914 either. But like 1914, everybody has a reason for war, and everyone has a score to settle (even the KMT has some). Lets hope it doesnt go into 1914 again. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

May 8, 2004, 02:55 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
white rice Igneous Magma Posts: 372	Agreed. In that thought of an unsinkable aircraft carrier, I guess the situation would be very similar to Israel. Political unstability has caused Taiwan's markets to fluctuate wildly. Maybe his incentive is economic. The need for a status quo is tied to the levels of prosperity both countries are enjoying at the moment. Should Chen continue his rhetoric, he'd probably face huge party losses on the Congressional level. The referendum failed when around half of the population abstained from voting, so Chen does not have a concensus or a mandate. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

May 9, 2004, 12:11 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	In a way both the US and China are opposed to any kind of war (it would ruin both economies, and the fallout would also destroy Europe/Asian economies). Its not like in 1939 when it took billions of dollars to unsuccessfully bomb a single city. Today it'll take 1 missile to do the damage of 400 Lancasters. I think, judging by Chen's recent speeches, he might calm down and keep the status quo. Unless Chen has had an extreme history, it is in his own interest to keep things stable. Taiwan's got an extremely divided society politically, and if you choose independence it will alienate almost half of Taiwan (rioting, revolts, etc). Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

May 17, 2004, 09:59 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Bob_Dobbs Guest Posts: n/a	i wouldn't board a ship for taiwan with a gun over taiwanese independence. the situation they have now is acceptable in my eyes. i think china should reform their state policies voluntarily, but i do not know if or how long that would take. the fact remains i am not dying for taiwan.