Fairness of Land Tax

[Young]

In a Rural countryside a Golf Course is built, and as people begin to build homes Land Prices are Raised thus raising the Tax. So these people push the Poor out of Land they've always Owned, simply because they can. In order to prevent this an entire community must be strong enough so that everyone can resist selling Land and allowing these kinds of takeovers to begin. By the time most of Us retire Social Security will no longer exist, but still we're forced to pay into it. Many retired people count on Social Security to assist them in paying their Land Tax, so what will We depend on? Imagine an Elderly couple barely able to pay for Food, and Medical expenses finding themselves being Taxed out of the Land they've owned all of their Lives. I feel that Land should only be taxed during the Initial sale, and I really don't think Rich people should be capable of having an Agenda to Tax people out of Land.

Young

[Cadre]

Of course if your smart you should be able to work the system.

Buy land occupied within erradic areas of urban sprawl while it's cheap before the town/city/government wishes to build upon it. 40 years down the line, when the municipal/federal government wishes to build and industrialize the area (housing projects/developments, plazas, supercenters) you own it, the price on the land will skyrocket and you can quadruple your original expenditure on the land.

Basic real estate right there.

Osborn Enready correctly points out in one of his threads, that this type of direct taxation is illegal under the constitution. If you really want to rid ourselves of this burden, go to www.fairtax.org. While this proposal is geared towards federal taxation, it could more easily be implemented on the state and local levels.

[argonak]

While I have no legal basis, I've always felt that land should be taxed on what it produces, and the inital sale.

[Helter]

Originally posted by dave654, Osborn Enready correctly points out in one of his threads, that this type of direct taxation is illegal under the constitution. If you really want to rid ourselves of this burden, go to www.fairtax.org. While this proposal is geared towards federal taxation, it could more easily be implemented on the state and local levels.

It's only outlawed by the constitution for the *federal government*, which doesn't engage in this type of taxation. Land taxes are levied by local and state governemnt's which are not limited by the constitutions taxation clauses.

[PatrickHenry]

You are right, Helter, as far as it goes. States do have such powers. It is still wrong, because the power to tax is the power to confiscate. Fair taxes should be besed on using the system and laid directly on the individual transaction. For instance, I have no problem paying the toll on the Bay Bridge. I can see what my money is going for.

On the other hand the Feds don't recognize the Constitution's authority over their protection racket. Senate Report 93-549

Yes you're right Helter, I stand corrected. However, I still maintain that the fairtax, would be a better system and could be easier to implement on the state or local level. Why don't you go to their website, read the info, and let me know what you think. www.fairtax.org. Jeez I sound like some sort of zealot. There is a resolution in the House right now which is picking up steam. Jesse Ventura has stated that he might run for president in 08 and would make this a centerpiece of his campaign. This could actually happen, and would improve life for all of us tremendously. Can I get an AMEN?

[Helter]

Originally posted by Young, In a Rural countryside a Golf Course is built, and as people begin to build homes Land Prices are Raised thus raising the Tax. So these people push the Poor out of Land they've always Owned, simply because they can. In order to prevent this an entire community must be strong enough so that everyone can resist selling Land and allowing these kinds of takeovers to begin. By the time most of Us retire Social Security will no longer exist, but still we're forced to pay into it. Many retired people count on Social Security to assist them in paying their Land Tax, so what will We depend on? Imagine an Elderly couple barely able to pay for Food, and Medical expenses finding themselves being Taxed out of the Land they've owned all of their Lives. I feel that Land should only be taxed during the Initial sale, and I really don't think Rich people should be capable of having an Agenda to Tax people out of Land. Young

The big problem with your theory is that if the properties have increased in value to the degree that that the increase in taxes is making the cost of living unbearable, then the people are no longer poor, they have significant assets in the value of the property. They can sell the property and move to a less expensive area with a nice bit of cash left over. Alternately, they can leverage the value of their property to expand their income potential.
Further, that's really not the way it happens. "The rich" don't have the power of taxation, we aren't in the feudal period anymore. Taxes don't go up with land prices, taxes go up with increases in spending at the local government level. Even if the value of a property increases twofold, unless the property is sold it would require the property being reassessed before the tax base would be increased.
To futher pick apart your argument, it's based on nothing more than an appeal to emotion, and a flimsy one at that. You haven't pointed out *why* this form of taxation is worse than any other. Retired and poor people would be equally burdened by a substantive use tax, a substantive income tax (unless they managed to vote in exemptions for themselves, in which case they're simply shrugging their tax burden onto another class), or really any other tax.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Young
I feel like I am replying to either the National Enquirer or Salon, back in the days when they would put their key words in color. When you invent your own punctuation to show your key points it implies that your usual audience is too stupid to pick them out w/o help. This implies that the people with your opinion are mostly half-wits, and I do not think you want to seriously debate under that handicapp.

Frankly, I agree with your conclusion about land tax, but I am rather relunctant to agree with anyone that uses logic as shoddy as you presented. Since you presented your case in ethos, I will answer in the same form.

How do you justify that the owners of the golf course are not also members of the community? How would elimination of property tax keep those with money from forcing them out? How would the government replace the funds that come from that tax? Property tax was invented to keep business from owning all land ad charging the rent the government has decided to charge itself, how do you replac that impediant to business doing the same?

[Autophage]

If these higher taxes do indeed push the poor people off the land as a result of raised taxes by means of raised property value, wouldn't they also get more money when they sold that land?

Property has been a time honored target for investors. The land ownders should enjoy the increase in value of their property. Their net worth has increased without them lifting a finger. I agree the property should not be taxed. See my above posts.
Here's a good strategy for these poor abused people whose propery values have increased.
1. Take out a loan using the property as collateral. Currently a secured loan like this will have an interest rate well below 6%. Probably even lower than 5%. Take that money and invest it somewhere. Land being developed, stocks, bonds, futures, whatever. Investing in bonds is safe and would over a period of 10-20 years, the investor could easily get better than 7 or 8%. Investing in Blue chips would garner a safe low teens %age. More agressive investing would gain the property owner even better returns. Over the 10-twenty years those poor abused folks who brutally had their property values increase could reap sever hundreds of thousands of dollars, depending on their original investment of course. All this and they didn't even have to pick up a shovel or break out in a sweat.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

We know this topic is about, "We should have more laws to protect stupid people." So I doubt investment advise is going to influence him.

I know, but I keep trying. There are way too many people who want to claim the system is rigged against them and that's why they aren't successful. Those dastardly rich people are conspiring to make their lives misserable. That's simply not true. If they would spend less time complaining and finding conspiracies, and more time learnig how those rich people became rich, they could join the ranks of successful Americans.
But, I'm only dreaming.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

You do not have to preach to me, I have read and enjoyed both, Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead.

Good books. Everyone should read them.