Israel: Just a few facts for those not supporting freedom in the Middle East

[GHook93]

Quote by: RickSp Sure. Neighboring countries have never treated Palestinians refugees well, which in no way justifies Israeli brutality toward Palestinians.

Totally agree

[GHook93]

[quote=ibm;272738]

Quote by: US Independent ...When Israel was formed it did not take away land from Arabs. The land used to form Israel was primarily unused. ...QUOTE] rite... when we occupied north america, the land used to form what later became known as the u.s. was "primarily unused". all we had to do was to kill the indians. history repeats itself, doesn't it?

The difference is the Jews were there before the Palestinians.

[ibm]

Quote by: GHook93 The difference is the Jews were there before the Palestinians.

what is the point here? weren't the indians here before anyone? last time i checked, history doesn't form in a way of "hey, get out! i got here first!"

[GHook93]

Quote by: ibm what is the point here? weren't the indians here before anyone? last time i checked, history doesn't form in a way of "hey, get out! i got here first!"

Well you are drawing a comparison btw the English/American's taking lands away from the Indians to the Israelis taking lands from the Palestinians.

Well the Indians were here first correct. But the Jews were in Israel/Palestine first also. There's the point.

[RickSp]

[quote=GHook93;272856]

Quote by: ibm The difference is the Jews were there before the Palestinians.

But not these Jews. The Jews you refer to were Isrealites, an ancient tribe. The modern Isrealis come primarily from Europe and the United States. Same tradition but not the same people. And nobody among them has a deed to the land.

The Palestinians were there a long time before the recent immigrants arrived after WWII. If the modern Isrealis have the right to kick out the Palestinians based on an ancient claim, then the Palestinian radicals have exactly the same right to kick out the Israelis based on their much more recent claim.

We cannot rewind history. The Israelis are here. The Palestinians are here. Both sides need to do the heavy lifting to find a workable settlement. The endless cycle of violence will benefit no one.

[GHook93]

[quote=RickSp;272866]

Quote by: GHook93 We cannot rewind history. The Israelis are here. The Palestinians are here. Both sides need to do the heavy lifting to find a workable settlement. The endless cycle of violence will benefit no one.

Good point. A two state solution is the ONLY answer.

[shrike]

Quote by: rick But not these Jews. The Jews you refer to were Isrealites, an ancient tribe. The modern Isrealis come primarily from Europe and the United States. Same tradition but not the same people. And nobody among them has a deed to the land

It was proven my recent genetic studies that most of the Ashkenazi Jews do have Middle Eastern ancestry. Its the same people

[ibm]

may all the english people in america return to england, their holly homeland. - "it's the same people."

[RickSp]

Quote by: shrike It was proven my recent genetic studies that most of the Ashkenazi Jews do have Middle Eastern ancestry. Its the same people

So? The Ashkenazi have some Middle Eastern ancestry. And the Palestinians do not? Ancestry does not imply title. If my ancestors were shown to come from Saxony, it doesn't give me the right to move in and shove out the current occupants.

Claiming rights and authority based on some mystical ancestry smacks of the language used by the the German racists of the 30s. It is a crude reversion to tribalism. Not a model on which a modern society should be based.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: GHook93 Well the Indians were here first correct. But the Jews were in Israel/Palestine first also. There's the point.

Then if it's ok for the Jews to take the land because they were there first, it must be ok for the Indians to claim YOUR land, because they were here before you.

How many Americans will be willing to give their land back to the Indians?? Now maybe you'll understand why the Palestinians aren't happy about having to give their land back to the Jews. As usual. a lot of Americans want it both ways. We want to keep the land that we took, but the Palestinians have to give back their land.

[shrike]

Quote by: RickSp So? The Ashkenazi have some Middle Eastern ancestry. And the Palestinians do not? Ancestry does not imply title. If my ancestors were shown to come from Saxony, it doesn't give me the right to move in and shove out the current occupants. .

But do you have a right to buy land there?

[GHook93]

Quote by: Zeebadee Then if it's ok for the Jews to take the land because they were there first, it must be ok for the Indians to claim YOUR land, because they were here before you. How many Americans will be willing to give their land back to the Indians?? Now maybe you'll understand why the Palestinians aren't happy about having to give their land back to the Jews. As usual. a lot of Americans want it both ways. We want to keep the land that we took, but the Palestinians have to give back their land.

I was stating one difference. There are many many other differences. You will at least conceed that won't you?

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: GHook93 I was stating one difference. There are many many other differences. You will at least conceed that won't you?

No, not really. We've had 60 years of near continuous fighting in this area because the nation of Israel was created on land that belonged to someone else. What other "differences" would you like to consider?

Seems to me that the simplest solution would be to move Israel to some place that would welcome it. I've heard that Israel is about the size of New Jersey. Ok, let's give them NJ.