Pat Tillman Hero

[Young]

Imagine walking onto a College Football team. Then after You break the tackle record at Arizona, Imagine turning Down 3.65 Million. Why? 9/11, and joining Your brother in the Army Rangers. On the Same Day Tillman is Killed, Little Eli Manning & His Daddy Promise to sit ou te whole season unless a trade to the Giants goes through. Even then Eli won't play unless the Money i right, and this I find very Sad. Some willing to give up the Money & Fame to Defend You & I, and then we got Punks like Eli.

Young

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

You must be typing on a laptop as well, recognize all the dropped letters.

[PhanthomOps]

To Young:

Disregard "GreatWyrm of Babylon"'s inane comment. I think the worms has eaten his brain.

As a 63-year old Disabled American Veteran (70% USAF), I am extremely humbled by Pat Tillman's actions. He has proven to all Americans what true humility, humanity and patriotism is all about. Pat is an outstanding example of what we all should be, and is a TRUE HERO to all our young.

Regretfully, too many people base their values on the dollar which is what they worship as all powerful. They fail to find the true meanning of life and happiness.

I found the following poem on the internet, and I feel is appropriate for Pat.

"The greatest love I was ever shown,
Was given me by those unknown.
Whose love for all of those like me,
Was given without vanity,
Was given freely without remorse,
Free-flying into the battle course.
With courage fighting our enemy,
So our land would always home the free.
So my own children can live and grow,
My children that they did not know.
Those brave warriors,
Whose lives were lost.
All paying the terrible, ultimate cost.
The greatest heroes, woman and man,
Who gave their lives in a foreign land,
Whose last sight was the desert sand,
All led to glory by God's tender hand.
Never again to see this sweet land,
That they so loved, that they made their stand.
Never again, to take a breath free,

Or to feel the touch of family,
They gave up their lives so that it remained free,
For they so loved this great country.
With pride we stand and voice what we want,
While overlooking soldier souls haunt,
Smiling while children laugh and play,
In freedom growing day by day.
All because of those unknown,
Who's greatest wish was to just come home.
I pray that maybe, when they take their last breath,
That they closed their eyes,
And just before death,
Took the vision to glory,
Of America green,
And smiled when thinking of those unseen.
The greatest love I was ever shown,
Was given me by those unknown".

God Bless Pat, his family, all our men and women presently in uniform, and all those who have gone before many giving the ultimate sacrifice. We owe them everything!!!!!!!!!!!

[Suburbanite]

Finally America has someone they can not feel ashamed to call a Hero (Jessica Lynch anyone?)

[Impenitent]

america has plenty of heroes everyday... tillman was a shining example, but police and firemen do their bits as well

[Automatic Nate]

This Tillman fellow was even interesting in college. I remember reading about his career at Arizona State--the coach wanted him to redshirt a year, and the young Tillman refused. He said that he'd sit out a year, but then the coach would only get three seasons out of him because he was graduating in three and a half. Even in 1997 he was a person of heroic substance in a world of hollow celebrities.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Impenitent, america has plenty of heroes everyday... tillman was a shining example, but police and firemen do their bits as well

Tillman certainly deserves his due, but the thing I notice about the media when these things happen is that they will run stories on guys like him for days only because they have a story and more importantly, video to show. Tillman was undoubtedly a brave and patriotic American, but so were all the other soldiers who enlisted after 9/11. They all had to know this wasn't just to get a free college education, but they joined anyway. My hat os off to Till;man, but it is also off to all the others who don't get any airtime. I'd like to see Fox and MSNBC run just 1 or 2 minutes of information on all the war dead.

Also, don't you find it interesting that Tillmans death is being played constantly for a few days after he died, but the Pentagon (a wholly owned subsidiary of the White House) won't let the media take any photos of the caskets returning home to Dover AFB?

[PhanthomOps]

To Impenitent:

You are absolutely correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We owe a hell of a lot to our honest policemen and firemen.

Since I live in New York City, that is why I say hello to every policeman/woman and fireman I see, and thank them for their service.

In-as-much as I am a vet, and wear my U.S. Air Forve Veteran cap with a number of military pins, I have a great conversation with these people, many of whom have also served. So there is a form of comradery that forms, and when they see me they stop and say hello.

It is a disgrace that most of our newspapers can only report the murders, rapes, roberies, etc. It would be nice to see some positive news, and reports of incidences where our police, fire departments and even private citizens have done something positive. This would be an encouragement for all, and even our children that life is not all crap and worthless, but there is hope afterall.

[PatC]

Has anyone read the editorial about Tillman in the UMass-Aherst paper. I live just outside of Boston and this has been a hot topic of the last week or so, im not sure if it gained national attention yet. Anyways, a grad student wrote an editorial saying that Tillman got what he deserved by joining the army and his choices were by influenced by his macho fantasy to go play rambo (not an exact quote but something to that effect.) Imediatly Renee Gonzalez(the author) was attacked by the media for his comments and threats were made against him. Search around and try to find a copy, ill let you make up your own mind, but ill ust throw my two cents in. Read some of it, heard alot about it on the radio, every comment on it was negative. It is disgusting that a member of the military who gave his life fighting terrorism is highly criticized in such a way. I would expect comments like that to come from a member of al Quada than an educated American with several years of college behind them.

[PhanthomOps]

PatC:

Regretfully, there are many in colleges and the media large and small who do not have any self-respect, so it's impossible for them to have respect for others.

They consider themselves inlightened and above the common man. All knowledgeable, able to reason to perfection.

You give too much credit to Renee by using the word "educated".

Renee has his head so far up his butt, if he farts hr'll blow what little brains he has right out.

Renee has absolutely no conception of what self-sacrifice, love of Country, patriorism is. One day Reality, and what it means to live in the real world is going to hit Renee like a tons of bricks. Splat !!!!!

An onlooker is going to say, wow lookk at that mush, oh well no loss.

[PatrickHenry]

In my opinion Pat Tillman was deluded by a powerful media propaganda machine into thinking his sacrifice was for something worthy. In truth, he died in vain. He was without doubt a man of honor and courage, like many who volunteer for public service in our military.

Unfortunately he did not, could not, know that the war in Iraq had nothing to do with the terrorism that caused his enlistment, and everything to do with globalism and the regional power over resources. I wish those profiting from NO-BID contracts in Iraq were as honorable and self-denying as Pat Tillman, God rest his soul.

[white rice]

He served and died in Afghanistan, not Iraq.

Originally posted by Suburbanite, Finally America has someone they can not feel ashamed to call a Hero (Jessica Lynch anyone?)

She served her country just as Tillman. It was the government and media who lionized her status and I don't think Jessica Lynch as a person deserves the blame for that. And it's the government and media lionizing Tillman's status while downplaying the deaths of other servicemen.

Any person who serves is a hero in my eyes. It shouldn't take the death or capture of one of our men and women for us as a country to realize that.

[PhanthomOps]

PatrickHenry:

Hey Brother, your comments of late are getting more negative. I know this is a debate, but don't let "the dark side of the force" take over.

And Pat did not die in vain - a comment like that:
1) casts a dark cloud on all military personnel past and present, living or dead
2) degrades their service to their country
3) is a personel insult
4) dehumanizes them
5) insuinates that we are all robots with out a soul

white rice:

Thank you for your complement. I am a 64-year old Disabled American Veteran, and am proud to have had the priviledge and honor to serve my country and fellow Americans.

Absolutely perfect response. You are 10000000001% correct, it should not take a death.

Perhaps if more people would visit our VA Hospitals and meet with many of the surviving Veterans from WW II, Korea, Vietnam, and now Afghanistan and Iraq, to observe first hand the results of their sacrifice, they just might realize - "There but for the Grace of God go I"

Regretfully, as the conflict grows old with age, only few remember and many forget. Subsequently, those who served in our armed forces are fogotten as well. That is a damn shame.

[white rice]

Yeah, then we start all over and throw ourselves into the meat grinder. There's so much in front of us that we can learn.

I haven't visited a VA Hospital before. I haven't even considered going until now.

[PatC]

[quote=PhanthomOps,]PatC:
You give too much credit to Renee by using the word "educated".
QUOTE]

i was using educated in a scarcastic way. Still its a disgrace that a member of the military serving in a Afghanistan and fighting the root of September 11 is so highly criticized. The thing that bothers me is about a year ago when the entire world was protesting the Iraq war many of the soldiers awaiting deployment said that the right of free speach was part of what they were fighting for. Pat Tillman and the thousands of other soldiers in the middle east are fight for people's rights to openly mock their sacrafices? Sadly yes, but isnt there a point where people should realize that even what they believe in should be kept to themselves? http://www.massachusetts.edu/?fuseaction=g...c.9&item_ID=176 thought this was interesting

[PhanthomOps]

PatC:

Yes you are right - the Democratic way of life, the freedoms we all enjoy came at a very hig price. Even for those who would demonstrate and mock their commitment and service.

And yes you are right that there comes a time when they should keep their opinions private and not be so adamently public. Regretfully, however, these people don't seem to realize that these massive demonstrations not only have a demoralizing effect on our military, but also aid the terrorists by giving them ammunition with witch to recruit. I wonder how they would feel having to live in a society ruled by these scum? Perhaps they would sat Ops.

[jcgadfly]

Originally posted by PhanthomOps, PatC: Yes you are right - the Democratic way of life, the freedoms we all enjoy came at a very hig price. Even for those who would demonstrate and mock their commitment and service. And yes you are right that there comes a time when they should keep their opinions private and not be so adamently public. Regretfully, however, these people don't seem to realize that these massive demonstrations not only have a demoralizing effect on our military, but also aid the terrorists by giving them ammunition with witch to recruit. I wonder how they would feel having to live in a society ruled by these scum? Perhaps they would sat Ops.

Isn't this just a fancier way of saying, "Your speech is free as long as it agrees with me"?

I believe Tillman was a brave human being. It's a crying shame that the sacrifices he and others have made were corrupted by the bastards in this administration who are using it as a means of consolidating power.

[PhanthomOps]

To: jcgadfly:

You stated -
"Isn't this just a fancier way of saying, "Your speech is free as long as it agrees with me"?"

NO WAY IN HELL 11111111111111111111111

However, an intelligent person weighs the plausable results of their vocial comments.

1 - Is it liable
2 - Is it slander
3 - Does it insight to violence and hatred
4 - Does it degrade
5 - Is it supportative or destructive
6) etc.

You also stated -
"It's a crying shame that the sacrifices he and others have made were corrupted by the bastards in this administration who are using it as a means of consolidating power."

No matter what administration is in power - Republican, Democratic, Independent, etc. Any and all would hail Tillman as a hero - so are they a corrupt bastards??

[rmnunez]

[PhanthomOps]

Yo: rmnunez

Boy have you got a severe case of octaretulitis!!!!!!

Some of you analpores may think this is funny, however, as a Veteran I don't.

However, your right to voice your opinion, as assinine as it is, happens to come at a great cost in lives - including Pat Tillman.