Democrats' Secret Plan for America

I wonder how many of the conspiracy theorists posting on this website will agree or disagree with the Democratic Parties plan for turning the US into a Socialist Utopian Workers Paradise.
www.boortz.com follow link to secret plan for America

Link

I think you mean how many will agree with Boortz's view of what he alledges is the plan of the Democrats. Sigh.

So you don't think the Dems are trying to accomplish these goals?

dave654,

Sigh, why are you trying to have me agree or disagree with Boortz's view of things? Certainly he in entitled to his view, but why must I agree or disagree with this view?

All I pointed out is the less than truthful content of your post, it is not a published or acknowledged plan of the Democrats, it is Boortz's allegation that it is a Democrat's plan and his point of view on how the Democrats will achieve what he claims in what he alledges is their plan.

[dotcoma]

Boortz is a moron.

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by dave654, I wonder how many of the conspiracy theorists posting on this website will agree or disagree with the Democratic Parties plan for turning the US into a Socialist Utopian Workers Paradise. www.boortz.com follow link to secret plan for America http://boortz.com/more/demsecrets.html ]

dave, I have reprocessed your link so it works with a click.
IMHO, the other mask of the NWO...
I disagree with such plans...
Government should become smaller, which also was once the rallying cry of the other party. No longer.
I don't support the Demo/Publican Machine of Death and Fraud.

PH. Thanks for the help with the link.
Excuse my ignorance but what is NWO?
Also, thanks for the non-inflamatory comments.
Peter, did you read Boortz' comments? Also, why don't you forget that I used Boortz and operate off the assumption that I dave654, allege the Democratic Party is trying to implement these actions. Maybe you could provide comments on the substance of the matter and not the messanger. This goes for you too Roxdog. OOOOHH SIIIIGH.

Oh yea, New World Order.

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by dave654, PH what is NWO?

New World Order, not the wrestling outfit: My obsession...

Originally posted by dave654, Peter, did you read Boortz' comments?  Also, why don't you forget that I used Boortz and operate off the assumption that I dave654, allege the Democratic Party is trying to implement these actions.  Maybe you could provide comments on the substance of the matter and not the messanger.  This goes for you too Roxdog.  OOOOHH   SIIIIGH.

Firstly, what you now claim, that you alledge, is not what your original post stated. To recap, the title and relevant contents of your original posting:

Democrats' Secret Plan for America

I wonder how many of the conspiracy theorists posting on this website will agree or disagree with the Democratic Parties plan for turning the US into a Socialist Utopian Workers Paradise.

You chose to ignore that very important word, alledge, and appeared to be instead claiming the alledged plan as a fact. Which is why commented. I certainly didn't comment on Boortz or yourself in personal terms, simply the lack of truthfulness in your post. Simply because an allegation exists does not make that which is alleged, fact or indeed anyones plan.

Then, you ask a question about this "plan" which so far, just allegation. Again, simply because you alledge, does not make something fact. Further, could you provide a detailed explanation of quite what constitutes a "Socialist Utopian Workers Paradise"?

On the subject of Boortz claims, I am constantly amused by American politics and the frequent trotting out of the communist and socialism tags. I am also freqently amused by people quoting Orwell to support the evils of communism and socialism. People obviously don't fully comprehend what Orwell thought of socialism, or for that matter what he thought of capitalism. Further odd is that few of these same people would want people to be reading and taking to heart Orwell's "Notes on Nationalism".

As to Boortz's claims, and yours, just another theory and for my point of view, at this point, not a theory that interests me or is worth having a point of view on.

Hey PW. If you're not interested in the subject matter why don't you just stop posting on this thread. If you don't want to post on the subject matter, with or without interst, then also don't post. Clearly you haven't even bothered to read Boortz' comments. If you don't post anymore, okay, if you do, try to limit your comments to the matter at hand, I'm not interested in a critique of how I phrased this thread.

dave654,

OK, seeing as you wish to make comment about the matter at hand, how about your prove your allegation that what Boortz claims is indeed a plan of the Democrat party. Then, the matter at hand would be commenting upon it as you asked posters to do.

So, where's your proof of this "Democrat's plan"?

[castille]

Leave the left-wing nuts to their conspiracies.

I thought Republicans are supposed to be practical?

[dismal]

LOL, the Democrats have a plan?

My sense is they've become a party of reaction and pandering to their special interests. The days of mainstream Democrats having a progressive social vision are over.

Listen to what their positions are and they're mostly about getting themselves back into power so they can undo the things Bush has done and restore the tax code etc. back to the glory of 2000. Maybe I should say 2001 so I can pick up all those critical Democrat policies that Clinton didn't get around to until his last day.

[Kyran]

Dave, the list of political goals is 100% Democrat. No conspiracy-theorism or anything. Do I agree with the opinions of Neal Boortz about the motivations behind the agenda? Partially.

Peter if you want proof just read Boortz' article. He lists proof after proof after proof that democrats have attempted several of these socialist schemes in the past. The only thing we presume is that they will try again.

Originally posted by , Universal Health Coverage. There is much more left to do. We must redouble our efforts to bring the uninsured into coverage step-by-step and as soon as possible. We should guarantee access to affordable health care for every child in America. We should expand coverage to working families, including more Medicaid assistance to help with the transition from welfare to work

--http://www.democrats.org/about/2000platform.html

I've never seen democrats do anything counterproductive to the goals Boortz talked about. They have pushed socialized medicine & health care, the Fairness Doctrine, and anti-corporate measures. It's a stretch to call it "secret."

Cmon Peter...if we've got the Dems wrong then correct us. What are the Dems REALLY trying to accomplish? Oh let me guess. They want to "make life fair" and "equalize the radio" and "help the p-p-poor." I severely doubt you'll do anything other than try to correct us about the underlying motivations of the Democrats. We don't need correcting.

Prove me wrong. Show me that Democrats are doing something capitalist.

Otherwise, you have no argument. It doesn't matter whether these issues are a conceived Plan. If that's all you can debate then you avoid the meat of the subject.

Kyran,

Peter if you want proof just read Boortz' article. He lists proof after proof after proof that democrats have attempted several of these socialist schemes in the past. The only thing we presume is that they will try again.

Um, I'm sorry but all Boortz does is offer opinion, not a single refernce to anything, just his opinion. And bluntly, I've read a few of his opinions and I have little time for the man.

[dotcoma]

Originally posted by castille, Leave the left-wing nuts to their conspiracies. I thought Republicans are supposed to be practical?

Do you really see things as black and white, right and left?

Originally posted by roxdog, Boortz is a moron.

i quite agree. he is extremely classist and believes america is a meritocracy. classic examples of republican elitism and oppression.

Okay, for the sake of Peter Wolf, and anyone else who doesn't want to read the material, I will provide an encapsulation. I probably should have done so in the beginning. I probably should have taken ownership since some of you posters have simply resorted to "Boortz is a moron" type posts.

They're both telling voters that the evil Republicans have a "secret" plan to reduce Social Security benefits as soon as they are reelected.
So .. now that the Democrats have opened this whole "secret plan" idea – what about the secret plans of the Democratic Socialists? Just what legislative agenda does the Democrat Party plan to pursue if and when they gain control of the Senate, the House and the presidency?

This is where the secret plan terminology comes from. No one is suggesting there is a document spelling all this out somewhere in a file cabinet somewhere.

First of all, the Democrats are attempting to remove the majority of citizens of ANY tax burden. The earned income tax credit is one example of how this is being accomplished.
"Remove a majority of voters from responsibility for income taxes This is the biggie – and they've made no attempt to hide their goals here. The Democrats have been working on this plan for decades --- with no small amount of help from the cowardly Republicans. The idea is simple. Using "refundable" tax credits and deductions and such ideas as the fraudulent Earned Income Tax Credit the Democrats are working to shift the entire burden for the payment of federal income taxes onto a minority of US taxpayers. Right now the top 50 percent of taxpayers pay almost 96 percent of the taxes."
The earned income tax credit actually GIVES money to citizens as a tax refund. This is blatant income redistribution since that money has to be taken from someone who earned it in order to be given to someone who did not earn it.

"When the majority of voters have no federal income tax liability it will be almost impossible to pass any meaningful tax cuts – and further tax increases will be a piece of cake, especially if the taxes only affect those to be considered to be rich."
Can anyone dispute this is what the Democrats are trying to accomplish? Just look at the problems Congress and W had when trying to enact a tax cut a couple of years ago. The furor was that it was a tax cut for the Rich, yadda, yadda. The fact remains that in order to receive a tax cut, it is presupposed that you are in fact paying taxes. The dems resorted to their attempts to remove lower income people from the tax roles.

"Payroll taxes, as you know, are basically Social Security and Medicare taxes. The Democrats have almost achieved their goal of shielding the so-called "poor" from any income tax liability at all. But --- the poor saps still have to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes."..."So ..... the next element of the Democrats' Secret Plan! The elimination of payroll taxes for the poor!"
"This is a plan that was put forth by Democrat Robert Reich on the Cutie-Pie and Holmes show on Fox News Channel on July 31, 2002. The idea is to, as Reich puts it, "lift the tax burden off the poor" by eliminating payroll taxes on the first $15,000 of income. Here's how you do it. The Democrats pass a law which says that nobody has to pay any payroll taxes on the first $15,000 of their income. Bingo -- the poor now have a completely free ride!"
How does the government cover the SS benefits for these people who no longer contribute to their own government retirement plan? Simple."raise the salary cap for Social Security taxes by enough to cover the lost revenues! Right now the cap is around $88,000 on Social Security taxes. To cover the shortfall Reich says they will just raise the salary cap by $15,000 ... to $103,000 a hear."
Since there is no cap on medicare taxes, the $15,000 raise would actually need to be $19,000 to cover the lost medicare tax.
I have seen Rober Reich make this proposal more than once. I have seen other democratic operatives also make this pitch. Anyone car to deny it?

Elimination of the mortgage interest deduction is mentioned next. Since only the "Rich" can afford houses, they would be the only ones affected by this proposal.

Socialized Medicine
I'll let Neal spell this out.
"They already tried this with Hillary Care. It failed. Democrats aren't discouraged by failure. They just try and try again until they finally get you to swallow the poison pill. There are two basic reasons the Democrats are working so hard for complete government control of this huge segment of our economy. One, of course, is power. Health care comprises about 15% of our national economy. If the government can seize control of this large a segment of our economy a giant step toward a socialist economy will have been achieved. The second reason is control. Think about it. If you control a person's access to healthcare ... you effectively control that person."
I imagine that once we have Socialized medicine, smokers will be target as unpatriotic since they're increasing health care costs. The same goes for fat people. Then there will certainly be other criteria causing the health Nazis heartburn.

Pension Plans are next. Early in the Clinton administration there was an attempt to do just this.
"A one-time 15% tax on the outstanding balance of all private pension and 401K retirement plans. This money would be paid into the general fund of the federal government and used to fund various social programs for low and middle-income earners." The 15% lump tax would be followed by a continuous tax on contributions into these plans.

Imputed income. This is a good one.
"here is the idea that the Clinton Administration was tossing around prior to the voter revolution of 1994. They were going to impute – credit – extra income to people who own their own homes."
"Let's say you own a home worth $250,000. Your payments on that home are about $2,000 a month. The government uses census data (there is a reason they ask all of those extra questions) to figure out what a $250,000 home in your neighborhood would rent for. Let's say it would rent for $3000 a month. This means that you could rent your home for $1000 a month more than your payments. But you're not renting your home, you're living in it. You must know that this just isn't fair to people who have to rent homes. They don't get the tax deductions you get. They don't own their own homes because, unlike you, they haven't, as Dickie Gephardt likes to phrase it, "won life's lottery."
"So ... here is this element of the Democrats' secret plan for you and your bank account. When you fill out your tax return you will have to consult certain tables and government data to determine what a home like yours would rent for in your neighborhood. Using the example above, your home would rent for $3000. You're paying $2000 a month to your mortgage company. You will be instructed to take the difference ($1000 a month) and multiply it by 12. This gives you $12,000. That's your imputed income. Add that to your other earnings to come up with your taxable income. That adds up to more than $4,500 in additional income taxes if you're in the top tax bracket. Hey, it's only fair ... you being rich and all."
Don't blame me, it's the Dems idea not mine.

Next is what the dems call Economically Targeted Investments, ETIs. The dems would pass tax code legislation designed to force pension plan and 401k money managers to invest these assets into companies owned, operated, and doing the work of the dems constituents, eg Unions.

Since this post is getting too long I will simply state the remaining points in this plan. If you're interested at this point you should read Neals comments.

Force Employers to pay for "family leave"
Government paid child care for majority of voters
Government imposed limits on executive income
repealing the second amendment
destroy talk radio

To call this a "secret plan" is more tongue in cheek. The dems have openly called for all of these actions and will probably achieve many, if not, most of them unless they are stopped.

Oh goodness, that amounts to little but an *opinion*. You want opinions on opinions? Hell, the Bush campaign claimed Kerry voted to raise taxes some 350 times, you agree with that?

Basically, you don't seem to get it, just because Boortz says it, doesn't make it fact. Bluntly, you are trying to convince people that opinions prove this secret plan. Unlikely.