Jenin massacre syndrome

[shrike]

Just like the spring of 2002, the international press prefers hype to facts After a lot of hesitancy and a short-lived attempt to take balanced positions, the worldwide left-wing has returned in full force to the "Jenin massacre syndrome." To remind: Many of the worlds leading journalists described the fighting in Jenin during the spring of 2002 as a cold-blooded massacre of thousands of Palestinians by the brutal IDF. TV screens around the world featured Palestinian "eyewitnesses," who gave exact details of blood-curdling actions by IDF soldiers that never happened. TV reporters reported against a background of destroyed buildings as "evidence" from the field that Israel had mercilessly flattened an entire city and the refugee camp next to it. It took months for human rights organizations, even the United Nations, to issue their reports refuting Palestinian claims. There was no massacre in Jenin, no ethnic cleansing, no intentional destruction of hospitals. There was a bloody battle in which soldiers died on each side. Learning the lessons The fairytale about the "Jenin massacre" may have died, but were lessons learned? Some were. The European media, especially the electronic media, has given some expression to the suffering of Israeli civilians under attack. It has not (usually) supported Hizbullah. But in other cases, no lessons were learned from the blood libel of the Jenin massacre. During the second week of fighting, Israel's military campaign in Lebanon is currently being portrayed as the total destruction of Lebanon, of essential civilian infrastructure, as a human tragedy on the level of the 2004 tsunami that killed hundreds of thousands of people in Southeast Asia. Reading reports from left-leaning field reporters, one gets a picture that Beirut has been destroyed at least as badly as Dresden was during the Second World War. Foreign television channels use one section of footage over and over, showing the destruction of one neighborhood in south Beirut, to "show" what has happened throughout the city. The most worrying thing about the current anti-Israel wave is its' global scope: Leaders and opinion makers around Latin America, for example, have denounced Israel in some of the strongest terms imaginable. The UN Human Rights Commission has joined the chorus, as have international law organizations, cinema types, even journalists. These claims, unfortunately, rest on the arrogant statements and bragging of several Israeli politicians and generals. Threats to "bomb Lebanon fifty years backwards" – statements intended for domestic consumption, and perhaps as part of the psychological warfare against the enemy – were picked up and broadcast by the world media as proof of Israel's destructive intentions. The facts And where is the truth in all this? The air force's bombing of Lebanon have caused, as always happens in war, damage and destruction, but this damage has been extremely limited. Israel has not "kicked Lebanon's ass," nor is there any intention to do so. In Beirut, to date, the airport has been hit, as have several strategic targets and buildings in the Shiite Quarter. That's a far cry from the descriptions of horror being played out nightly on television screens, and of charges of war crimes. The situation in south Lebanon is worse because of the planned civilian flight. But Hizbullah has turned the whole of south Lebanon into a war zone, by blurring the distinction between military and civilian areas. The organization also aims its rockets at Israel's civilian population. Thus, civilians were forced to flee both southern Lebanon and northern Israel. Still, talk of a "Lebanese nakba," a humanitarian disaster that any honest person would feel revulsion about, fails to reflect reality. It is no more than horror propaganda that many prefer to believe, including many Israeli journalists. Analysts repeat the claims without verifying the facts, and preach moral lessons and philosophies based on these claims. More than numbers The numbers, of course, don't tell the whole story: The death of even one innocent person is a terrible tragedy, and 50,000 refugees is an appalling horror. But statistics do have a public relations value. As of this writing, some 360 Lebanese have been killed by Israeli military action, about half of them Hizbullah fighters (as opposed to official Lebanese statistics). After two weeks of bombing, these numbers tell the story of low-level war. There is no "destruction of Lebanon," just like there was no "Jenin massacre." In 2006, because of the mistaken approach that "the world is with us," because of the different character of the fighting and psychological and diplomatic reasons, the facts have been abandoned. This is a mistake, one that works against Israel with opinion makers around the world. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...280038,00.html

I still don't understand how Lebanese government can tell who is A Hezbollah member and who is innocent bystander

[Matt W]

By counting the childrens' bodies, for starters?

[Nono]

Quote by: Nono Don't you dare start up about Jenin.

My my, shrike, so predictable.

So tell me this, little buddy: If Hezbollah has been responsible for hundreds of dead civilians (buried in collapsed apartment blocks, etc.), that means hundreds of extra projectiles emerging from Hezbollah artillery tubes and rocket launchers.

1) If this were true, what does it say about the competence of the Israeli military in terms of spotting and dealing with those projectiles?

2) Why aren't we getting highly specific claims of this from official Israeli sources? I mean, what's the matter with them?

No, buddy, you're leaning way too far. But tribal loyalty exacts a toll, I understand.

[shrike]

Quote by: MATT By counting the childrens' bodies, for starters?

I like to see some independent inquiry. In Jenin there were counted too.

[shrike]

Quote by: NONO So tell me this, little buddy: If Hezbollah has been responsible for hundreds of dead civilians (buried in collapsed apartment blocks, etc.), that means hundreds of extra projectiles emerging from Hezbollah artillery tubes and rocket launchers.

Did I said that? Straw man argument .I didn't talked about that Hezbollah killed this civilians I only doubted the numbers.

[RickSp]

Here is the BBC take on the body count:

At least 372 Lebanese, the great majority civilians, have been killed during the conflict, which is now into its 13th day. Thirty-seven Israelis have been killed, about half of them civilians.

I'm sure you will claim they are lying as well.

Funny that you should bring up Jenin. Sabra and Shatila seem more to the point.

[Nono]

Quote by: shrike Did I said that?

Man, don't you read your own link?

C'mon shrike, you keep taking absurdly improbable positions in the increasingly difficult attempt to let Israel off the moral hook. When you're called to account, you plead strawman. Well, perhaps you'd like to make a perfectly unambiguous statement about what exactly is going on these days in Lebanon in terms of civilian deaths.

Don't be shy.

[shrike]

Quote by: RICK Here is the BBC take on the body count: Quote: At least 372 Lebanese, the great majority civilians, have been killed during the conflict, which is now into its 13th day. Thirty-seven Israelis have been killed, about half of them civilians. I'm sure you will claim they are lying as well.

Did they counted the bodies?In Jenin media outlets said it was 500 civilians killed what turned to be a lie.
I will quote from the article again.Did you read it?

The numbers, of course, don't tell the whole story: The death of even one innocent person is a terrible tragedy, and 50,000 refugees is an appalling horror. But statistics do have a public relations value. As of this writing, some 360 Lebanese have been killed by Israeli military action, about half of them Hizbullah fighters (as opposed to official Lebanese statistics). After two weeks of bombing, these numbers tell the story of low-level war. There is no "destruction of Lebanon," just like there was no "Jenin massacre." In 2006, because of the mistaken approach that "the world is with us," because of the different character of the fighting and psychological and diplomatic reasons, the facts have been abandoned. This is a mistake, one that works against Israel with opinion makers around the world.

[shrike]

Quote by: nono Man, don't you read your own link?

Yes of course. Where did it stated that Hezbollah killed the civilians? Though its may be the case in some occasion because kadaicha is not precise weapon IMO.

Well, perhaps you'd like to make a perfectly unambiguous statement about what exactly is going on these days in Lebanon in terms of civilian deaths.

I cant do it .Because I simply don't know. We should wait to end of the war.

[RickSp]

Shrike, I could care less about what may or may not have happened in Jenin. Let's talk about Sabra and Shatila which has much more to do with what Israel is doing in Lebanon today.

[Nono]

Quote by: shrike I simply don't know.

I'm glad to see you admit this. I also don't know, and wouldn't put it past Hezbollah to kill Lebanese in order to crank up the death toll. Still, it's safe to say that the Israelis are firing at just about anything that moves (something they barely bother to deny) or otherwise catches their fancy. Either way, Israel has a great deal of blood on its hands and this whole thing is going to come back to haunt it.

Then we'll have another round. :)

[shrike]

Shrike, I could care less about what may or may not have happened in Jenin. Let's talk about Sabra and Shatila which has much more to do with what Israel is doing in Lebanon today.

Do you have something on topic. How the media know who is civilian and who is not .And on what accounts it base the numbers. Anything else if off-topic.
Btw If you want to make thread about Sabra and Shatila I probably participate in it though i don't have much time because of the war.

[PatrickHenry]

Everybody is forgetting the "Southern Front" in the Israeli aggression, Gaza. Maybe that's the point...the Zionists wish to do as much damage to those they hate (everyone except Jews) as possible before they are stopped...

[RickSp]

What is sadly funny about the "Jenin syndrome" claims is that it is exactly backwards. US media outlets have a long history of under reporting Palestinian and other non-Israeli deaths.

Accuracy in Reporting of Israel/Palestine - The New York Times

This study consists of a statistical examination of The New York Times’ news coverage of the first year of the current Palestinian uprising, and of its coverage of that uprising in 2004. The categories examined are coverage in headlines or first paragraphs of conflict deaths and, as a subcategory, children’s deaths. In addition, we studied coverage of deaths in complete articles for a sample month-long sub-study in 2004. Our findings indicate significantly distorted coverage by The New York Times of these topics. In the first study period The Times reported Israeli deaths at a rate 2.8 times higher than Palestinian deaths, and in 2004 this rate increased by almost 30%, to 3.6, widening still further the disparity in coverage. The Times’ coverage of children’s deaths was even more skewed. In the first year of the current uprising, Israeli children’s deaths were reported at 6.8 times the rate of Palestinian children’s deaths. In 2004 this differential also increased, with deaths of Israeli children covered at a rate 7.3 times greater than the deaths of Palestinian children. Given that in 2004 22 times more Palestinian children were killed than Israeli children, this category holds particular importance. We could find no basis on which to justify this inequality in coverage. (Emphasis added)

[shrike]

What is sadly funny about the "Jenin syndrome" claims is that it is exactly backwards. US media outlets have a long history of under reporting Palestinian and other non-Israeli deaths.

Yes lets start to post from biased sources I have it too.

International news organizations covering the Arab-Israeli conflict frequently refer to the international agreements and resolutions that were intended to resolve outstanding issues between the parties. Unfortunately, however, they frequently do this in ways that are prejudiced against Israel's legal rights and claims. In many cases, correspondents misreport or even overlook the expressed intent of the drafters of these resolutions. For example, Israel's civilian and military presence in the disputed West Bank and Gaza Strip and its administration of a united Jerusalem and the northern Mt. Dov [Shaaba Farms] region complies with international laws and resolutions, yet some leading international news organizations have referred to these areas as "illegally occupied lands or colonies."1 The basic story line reported by many Middle East-based news correspondents is the Palestinian struggle to "liberate their homeland" from "illegal Israeli occupation." The emotionally charged Palestinian liberation story is, for many reporters, more compelling than the dry, factual context of history, especially existing international laws and resolutions that support Israel's narrative.

http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp495.htm
http://honestreporting.com/
http://www.camera.org/

[shrike]

What is sadly funny about the "Jenin syndrome" claims is that it is exactly backwards

The Jenin "massacare" claim turned to be not true and its a fact.

[RickSp]

Quote by: shrike The Jenin "massacare" claim turned to be not true and its a fact.

Yes "only" 22 Palestinian civilians were killed and most of the camp was destroyed. And we all know non-Israelis don't count anyway.

[RickSp]

Quote by: shrike Yes lets start to post from biased sources I have it too.

Yes, the sources you provided are biased. We can agree on that point.

To my knowledge no one has questioned either the methodology or the results of the studies I cited.

[shrike]

UN Official Blasts Hezbollah For Hiding Among Civilians LARNACA, Cyprus (AP)--The U.N. humanitarian chief, on his way back from a visit to Beirut, criticized Hezbollah on Monday for what he called "cowardly blending" among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds. Jan Egeland - on a mission to organize the aid effort - on Sunday condemned the killing and wounding of civilians by both sides, but called Israel's offensive "disproportionate." In an interview at the Larnaca airport in Cyprus late Monday, Egeland said, "consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending...among women and children."

http://www.easybourse.com/Website/dy...NewsRubrique=2

[shrike]

sources you provided are biased. We can agree on that point

Don't make laugh out of you self you know that your source is biased..

To my knowledge no one has questioned either the methodology or the results of the studies I cited

Ok I presented opposite research do you have something to say about its methodology or the results?