Know The Roots of Terrorist Ideolgies Vol. I

[lsbskins1]

Check out this link, o ye of little background knowledge...

http://www.thewahhabimyth.com/qutb.htm

[Zhavric]

Didn't make it through the whole article. Does it talk about the 1953 US backed coup in Iran?

[PatrickHenry]

It's a politico/religious site that doesn't deal with current affairs much, Zhavric. I didn't see anything on the West's incursions into Islamic areas or attempts at hegemony. It seems more concerned with distinguishing some of the finer points that divide the mainstream of Islam from the Jihadis...

[lsbskins1]

I was attempting to bring a little clarity to the differences between Islam and people who develope terrorist ideologies who happen to be Muslim. Some seem to have trouble seeing those distinctions.

Also, for more clarity, check this out.

http://archive.salon.com/books/int/2...ong/print.html

Karen Armstrong has written some wonderful books. I have read A History of God and The Battle for God, and parts of Holy War. All very illuminating.

The Battle for God talks alot about the social justice elements of the Shia and how alot of the opposition to the west is rooted in the fact that rather than enhancing the "social justice" sought by the masses, the western democracies were behind a great deal of exploitative behaviors and supported very oppressive regimes. We need wonder no further as to the cause behind their distrust of "democratic institutions, western style".

[G. Adams]

Your title makes a lazy intertwining between Islam and terrorism. I could post a thread with the exact same title describing George Washingtons childhood. Such a lack of intellectual rigour is the reason why we think of Iran and Syria as "terrorist states" for sponsering Hizbollah, but not the US for sponsering the Contras or it's CIA for organising the Iranian coup.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: lsbskins1 Karen Armstrong has written some wonderful books. I have read A History of God and The Battle for God, and parts of Holy War. All very illuminating. The Battle for God talks alot about the social justice elements of the Shia and how alot of the opposition to the west is rooted in the fact that rather than enhancing the "social justice" sought by the masses, the western democracies were behind a great deal of exploitative behaviors and supported very oppressive regimes. We need wonder no further as to the cause behind their distrust of "democratic institutions, western style".

Agreed and I also enjoy Karen Armstrong. I found this one a great read: Jerusalem: One City, Three Faiths (1996)

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: G. Adams Your title makes a lazy intertwining between Islam and terrorism. I could post a thread with the exact same title describing George Washingtons childhood. Such a lack of intellectual rigour is the reason why we think of Iran and Syria as "terrorist states" for sponsering Hizbollah, but not the US for sponsering the Contras or it's CIA for organising the Iranian coup.

My title does not mention Islam, so how does it intertwine Islam and terrorism?

[G. Adams]

Quote by: lsbskins1 My title does not mention Islam, so how does it intertwine Islam and terrorism?

In this case, it is actually the lack of the mention of Islam, in relation to the subsequent topic, that intertwines Islam and terrorism. Let me explain...

You have the title "Know the roots of terrorist ideologies", and then in your post have a link to info on Wahhabi. Poor grammar aside, the title suggests your actually going to have the roots of terrorist ideologies, yet all your link gives us is the roots of Islamic militancy. There's nothing about, say, communist and fascist terrorists in Italy (both of whom were, at one time or another, sponsered by the Italian government), Maoist terrorism across East Asia, the ANC in South Africa etc.

But no, your title, in reference to your post, makes the poor assumption that the root of terrorist ideology is Wahabbism, which certainly isn't the case. It tells me your making a subconscious exclusive link between this "branch" of Islam and terrorism.

Additionally, there is no such thing as a terrorist ideology, which suggests some kind of ideology linking all terrorists.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: G. Adams In this case, it is actually the lack of the mention of Islam, in relation to the subsequent topic, that intertwines Islam and terrorism. Let me explain... You have the title "Know the roots of terrorist ideologies", and then in your post have a link to info on Wahhabi. Poor grammar aside, the title suggests your actually going to have the roots of terrorist ideologies, yet all your link gives us is the roots of Islamic militancy. There's nothing about, say, communist and fascist terrorists in Italy (both of whom were, at one time or another, sponsered by the Italian government), Maoist terrorism across East Asia, the ANC in South Africa etc. But no, your title, in reference to your post, makes the poor assumption that the root of terrorist ideology is Wahabbism, which certainly isn't the case. It tells me your making a subconscious exclusive link between this "branch" of Islam and terrorism. Additionally, there is no such thing as a terrorist ideology, which suggests some kind of ideology linking all terrorists.

Well, you certainly loaded up my post. But, let's say I accept that you are in some way right about my lack of clarity. Really, this ain't a paper that is looking for peer review or publication. I'm throwing out some information on an internet formum for god's sake. And there was, on my part, no subconcious connection between Islam, in any of it's manifestations, and terrorism. I, quite consciously, connect terrorism with two main problems. 1) Unnecessary and heavy-handed oppression of political opposition. 2) Frustrated and deadly over-reaction to said oppression. This is, of course, a very simplified reduction of the problem, that does not approach the varriation and complexities involved in the issue. But, you will notice, it has nothing to do with Islam or any other religion. Those affiliations are incidental, not determinative.

Did you actually READ the information at the link, by the way. I know the word Wahhabi was in the text of the link, but it does say, in the written portion, that it is a MYTH that Wahhabism can be linked with terrorism. It points a finger at the opinions of one man who was not a trained Islamic scholar but rather, a literary critic, who developed the ideas behind these specific terrorist ideas. A man who was in a political group that was 1) brutally suppressed by Nasar in Egypt. He then developed a 2) frustrated and violently reactionary answer to this situation. Others have since adopted and adapted his ideals, that at their base are rooted in 1) and 2). So, I would ask you to reconsider you critisism. I may have made the mistake of believing it was unnecessary to spoon feed people the point of my posting, but I did not make the mistake you accuse me of making.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: lsbskins1 Well, you certainly loaded up my post. But, let's say I accept that you are in some way right about my lack of clarity. Really, this ain't a paper that is looking for peer review or publication. I'm throwing out some information on an internet formum for god's sake. And there was, on my part, no subconcious connection between Islam, in any of it's manifestations, and terrorism. I, quite consciously, connect terrorism with two main problems. 1) Unnecessary and heavy-handed oppression of political opposition. 2) Frustrated and deadly over-reaction to said oppression. This is, of course, a very simplified reduction of the problem, that does not approach the varriation and complexities involved in the issue. But, you will notice, it has nothing to do with Islam or any other religion. Those affiliations are incidental, not determinative. Did you actually READ the information at the link, by the way. I know the word Wahhabi was in the text of the link, but it does say, in the written portion, that it is a MYTH that Wahhabism can be linked with terrorism. It points a finger at the opinions of one man who was not a trained Islamic scholar but rather, a literary critic, who developed the ideas behind these specific terrorist ideas. A man who was in a political group that was 1) brutally suppressed by Nasar in Egypt. He then developed a 2) frustrated and violently reactionary answer to this situation. Others have since adopted and adapted his ideals, that at their base are rooted in 1) and 2). So, I would ask you to reconsider you critisism. I may have made the mistake of believing it was unnecessary to spoon feed people the point of my posting, but I did not make the mistake you accuse me of making.

Granted, it may seem picky to criticise in the way I did, but the title suggests something much greater in scope than you actually brought up. You pick one narrow element of terrorism, and present it, through the title, as somehow comprehensive look at the origin of ideologies that have used terrorism. As I said in my first post, it's more a lack of intellectual rigor than anything else.

I spend too much time having to review journal articles, so p'raps I'm taking a board post a little too seriously.

[lsbskins1]

Well, try as I might to NOT care, I'm feeling a little "ruffled" that you are excusing your assumptions by foisting them off on a "lack of intellectual rigor" on my part. I did not claim that I was presenting a "comprehensive" anything. That would be your assumption. But really, I suppose I need to shed my own conceit. I am caring too much that you believe I lack "intellectual rigor". It just shows how far from Nirvanna I actually am.

Would you care to comment on what I was "trying" to convey?

[G. Adams]

Quote by: lsbskins1 Well, try as I might to NOT care, I'm feeling a little "ruffled" that you are excusing your assumptions by foisting them off on a "lack of intellectual rigor" on my part. I did not claim that I was presenting a "comprehensive" anything. That would be your assumption. But really, I suppose I need to shed my own conceit. I am caring too much that you believe I lack "intellectual rigor". It just shows how far from Nirvanna I actually am. Would you care to comment on what I was "trying" to convey?

To have a title as grandiose as "Know the roots of terrorist ideologies vol. 1" certainly suggests something more comprehensive than this one aspect.

Or perhaps you are planning a series of follow up volumes. If that's the case I'll have to eat my words and apologise. Please don't make me...

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: G. Adams To have a title as grandiose as "Know the roots of terrorist ideologies vol. 1" certainly suggests something more comprehensive than this one aspect. Or perhaps you are planning a series of follow up volumes. If that's the case I'll have to eat my words and apologise. Please don't make me...

Well, what would YOU add. I will add more, in time. I just wanted to get something kick-started that was more "realistic" from my point of view. I did call it Vol. I