The U.S. needs to liberate itself from Israel.

[peaceofthepie]

Until then the Arab people aren't going to take anything we say seriously.

[dsanthony]

Quote by: peaceofthepie Until then the Arab people aren't going to take anything we say seriously.

The same Arab people who flew planes into the WTC and Pentagon? The same Arab people, one of which killed Bobby Kennedy? The same Arab people who killed Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics?

You must be a liberal? Peace in our time, Adolph. Just sign here...

[Jack]

I never realized that there are less than 50 Arabs in the world. Jeez, I see your point. :rolleyes:

[dsanthony]

Quote by: Isherwood I never realized that there are less than 50 Arabs in the world. Jeez, I see your point. :rolleyes:

I don't think you can say anything that is not some PC slogan.

[Protostar]

I support cutting all aid and support to Israel. They have been an albatross around this countrys neck ever since we started supporting it. Israel benefits the US zilch; just a financial blackhole into which to waste taxpayer dollars. Spend taxpayer dollars in America and thats it. Supporting Israel is the primary reason why the Arabs hate us, that and the fact how we always meddle in their affairs and support dictators (when they are are lapdogs that is).

[Jack]

I don't think you can say anything that is not some PC slogan.

Actually I think for myself and post my own thoughts. You should try it sometime.

[earthling]

i believe that the only reason jews are in palistine is because god said it was their rightlul land.does this mean that it is their god given right to proceed with genpocide against the palistinian people.no wonder why the muslim race is so anti western,do u believe that influentail jews in america r using their powers of the media empire to infulence the world in propaganda to justify their cause of invading palistine.i cant stand the fact that america is arming and defending the actions of israil,after all arent the jews responsible for the death of jesus.you have to ask yourself the question,"why are the jews the most hated race of people on the planet.please give me your thoughts

[ise]

Quote by: Protostar I support cutting all aid and support to Israel. They have been an albatross around this countrys neck ever since we started supporting it. Israel benefits the US zilch; just a financial blackhole into which to waste taxpayer dollars. Spend taxpayer dollars in America and thats it. Supporting Israel is the primary reason why the Arabs hate us, that and the fact how we always meddle in their affairs and support dictators (when they are are lapdogs that is).

All true.

Is it a case of the parasite convincing the host that it's for it's own good as the parasite munches on the hosts' brain. And then they are the most disloyal of all citizens. They have even killed your sailors. In who's army do they serve. Check the percentage of Jewish-American troops in Iraq as against their percentage of the American population. Conscription in the USA might sort out the IDF.

[dsanthony]

Quote by: Protostar I support cutting all aid and support to Israel. They have been an albatross around this countrys neck ever since we started supporting it. Israel benefits the US zilch; just a financial blackhole into which to waste taxpayer dollars. Spend taxpayer dollars in America and thats it. Supporting Israel is the primary reason why the Arabs hate us, that and the fact how we always meddle in their affairs and support dictators (when they are are lapdogs that is).

The US and Israel are allies. Luckily, people like you are a small minority. Even pols who agree with you know better than to say so in public.

Yes, we can be friends with the Arabs. It would take little. First, give up Israel. Second, give up Salman Rushdie. Third, agree never to allow any drawings or images of the prophet to be shown, published or displayed. Fourth, agree never to make light of the Islamic faith. Fifth, agree to stop the influx of modernity into Islamic countries. Sixth, agree to stop calling for equal rights for women in Islamic countries.

As I've said before... yes, we can have peace in our times. Sign here, Adolph....

[ise]

Quote by: dsanthony The US and Israel are allies. Luckily, people like you are a small minority. Even pols who agree with you know better than to say so in public.

"The US and Israel are allies"

What evidence?

An ally does NOT murder the others' sailors. USS Libery.

An ally does NOT steal the others' secrets.

An ally does NOT sell your secrets to an enemy.


"Even pols who agree with you know better than to say so in public."

Interesting. Very interesting. I doubt if you will explain this in more detail. Which flag is your allegiance to. Divided loyalties? Or a christian with the snip confused as to the state of Israel. A host with the most.

The bully boy tactics in your "you know better than to say so in public" reminds me of other bully's tactics. No, not the Nazis but from their pupils.

loudmouth bully

In Gaza, a soldier is abducted from the army of a state that frequently abducts civilians from their homes and locks them up for years with or without a trial - but only we're allowed to do that. And only we're allowed to bomb civilian population centers.

The concept that we have totally forgotten is proportionality. While we're in no hurry to get to the negotiating table, we're eager to get to the battlefield and the killing without delay, without taking any time to think. That deepens suspicions that we need a war every few years, with terrifying repetition, even if afterward we end up back in exactly the same position.

H A A R E T Z
"Even pols who agree with you know better than to say so in public."
Explain.

[dsanthony]

Quote by: ise Quote by: dsanthony The US and Israel are allies. Luckily, people like you are a small minority. Even pols who agree with you know better than to say so in public. "The US and Israel are allies" What evidence? An ally does NOT murder the others' sailors. USS Libery. An ally does NOT steal the others' secrets. An ally does NOT sell your secrets to an enemy. "Even pols who agree with you know better than to say so in public." Interesting. Very interesting. I doubt if you will explain this in more detail. Which flag is your allegiance to. Divided loyalties? Or a christian with the snip confused as to the state of Israel. A host with the most. The bully boy tactics in your "you know better than to say so in public" reminds me of other bully's tactics. No, not the Nazis but from their pupils. loudmouth bully In Gaza, a soldier is abducted from the army of a state that frequently abducts civilians from their homes and locks them up for years with or without a trial - but only we're allowed to do that. And only we're allowed to bomb civilian population centers. The concept that we have totally forgotten is proportionality. While we're in no hurry to get to the negotiating table, we're eager to get to the battlefield and the killing without delay, without taking any time to think. That deepens suspicions that we need a war every few years, with terrifying repetition, even if afterward we end up back in exactly the same position. H A A R E T Z "Even pols who agree with you know better than to say so in public." Explain.

I think the sentence "even the pols (politicians) who agree with you know better than to say so in public" is self-explanatory. No offense intended, but is English your first language? I'd assume a native english speaker would recognize there was not "threat" in that sentence... only a fact of electoral politics in the US.

[ise]

ise dsanthony The US and Israel are allies. Luckily, people like you are a small minority. Even pols who agree with you know better than to say so in public. "The US and Israel are allies" [CENTER] What evidence? [/CENTER] An ally does NOT murder the others' sailors. USS Liberty. An ally does NOT steal the others' secrets. An ally does NOT sell your secrets to an enemy. dsanthony "Even pols who agree with you know better than to say so in public." Interesting. Very interesting. I doubt if you will explain this in more detail. Which flag is your allegiance to. Divided loyalties? Or a christian with the snip confused as to the state of Israel. A host with the most. The bully boy tactics in your "you know better than to say so in public" reminds me of other bully's tactics. No, not the Nazis but from their pupils. Loudmouth bully - H A A R E T Z "Even pols who agree with you know better than to say so in public." Explain. dsanthony I think the sentence "even the pols (politicians) who agree with you know better than to say so in public" is self-explanatory. No offense intended, but is English your first language? I'd assume a native english speaker would recognize there was not "threat" in that sentence... only a fact of electoral politics in the US.

I always know what to expect when I see the "no offence intended, but" preamble. Now this was about as silly a reply as I've ever seen. You'll get yourself dumped out of your baiting school. Did they not teach you that it is better to ignore a superior argument than to reply with such a pathetic retort. Now everyone can see how useless you are. Well, maybe you will know the next time.

I'm Irish. We are touchy about not being able to speak our first langauge, Irish. We reckon that we speak the best english in the world! You'd feel sorry for the English. Everything they gave the world is done better by their former dominions. Shocking.

How is your english. What do you speak in the bosom of your family. Yiddish. Now for the hard questions.

US and Israel are allies? [CENTER] What evidence![/CENTER]

Do you confirm that American politicians are threatened by THE LOBBY and "know better than to say so in public."

Opening the Debate on Israel
by Norman Solomon the Baltimore Sun

The extended controversy over a paper by two professors, "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy," is prying the lid off a debate that has been bottled up for decades. Routinely, the American news media have ignored or pilloried any strong criticism of Washington's massive support for Israel. But the paper and an article based on it by respected academics John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen Walt, academic dean of the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University , first published March 23 in the London Review of Books, are catalysts for some healthy public discussion of key issues.

In the United States, "the lobby's campaign to quash debate about Israel is unhealthy for democracy ," Mr. Mearsheimer and Mr. Walt assert. They point to grave effects on the body politic: "The inability of Congress to conduct a genuine debate on these important issues paralyzes the entire process of democratic deliberation ." While their paper overstates the extent to which pro-Israel pressures determine U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East, a very powerful lobby for Israel clearly has enormous leverage in Washington. And the professors make a convincing case that the U.S. government has been much too closely aligned with Israel - to the detriment of human rights, democracy and other principles that are supposed to constitute American values. The failure to make a distinction between anti-Semitism and criticism of Israel routinely stifles public debate.

Journalists understand critical words about Israel to be hazardous to their careers.

[underbear1]

The US was part of the creation of Israel, and I think by and large they are worthy allies.

[McAiden]

The Israelies are formidable allies to the U.S. Anywhere they have been chased to nothing but success has resulted. Why don't the people in their region, or any region on this planet, learn from them instead of such outrageous hatred and jealousy.

Destroy Israel and the roots of the tree from which we have all sprung will be destroyed.
I think there are other ways to defuse some bad tempers between Israel and Hasbollogh. One is to work with Syria.

[underbear1]

If I had the choice of trusting my life with an Israeli or a Hezbollah, or Iraqui,or Afghani fighting along side me, the choice would be simple..........It'd be the Israeli.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dsanthony I don't think you can say anything that is not some PC slogan.

I don't see how your attitude and ignorance contributes to the discussion.

[Pooeypants]

People must understand that the support from Israel stems from Christian evanglicalism. There are alot of politicians in the States who believe in the "End of time" scriptures, and those texts state that the Jews must return to their land inorder for Armageddon to occur and the Earth to be "reborn".
Most people believe that it is the Jewish lobbies that have managed to keep the US' support for Israel but that simply isn't the case. So if you want to end this support you must remove those that allows their Religion to dictate their political decisions.

[ise]

Quote by: underbear1 The US was part of the creation of Israel, and I think by and large they are worthy allies.

NOT TRUE.

When Did the U.S. and Israel Become Allies?

There has never been a treaty between Israel and the United States. Both countries have shared values and a passion for democracy. Those who refer to Israel as an ally of the United States in 1967 are guilty of an anachronism and display a lack of knowledge of history. The United States immediately recognized Israel, it also strictly enforced the Neutrality Act which prohibited the sale or transfer of any military weapons to Israel. The 1948 War of Independence established the state of Israel. Still, in the late 1940s, the majority of American Jews were not in favor of a Jewish state in Palestine.

In 1956, President Nasser of Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal and closed the Strait of Tiran. Israel joined England and France in operation Musketeer, a military action which swiftly captured the Sinai and the Suez Canal. Following their military success, England, France, and Israel were coerced to withdraw from the canal and the Sinai by the United States under the policy of President Dwight D. Eisenhower and Secretary of State John Foster Dulles. At this point, the relationship between the U.S. and Israel became strained and cold. Following Israel's stunning victory in the Six Day War, a euphoria set in around the world and strong support for the state of Israel developed in the United States. American public opinion swung dramatically in favor of Israel and for the first time in history, a majority of American Jews became Zionists, that is they supported the concept of a Jewish state.

An ally does NOT murder the others' sailors. USS Liberty.
An ally does NOT steal the others' secrets.
An ally does NOT sell your secrets to an enemy.

[ise]

Quote by: Pooeypants People must understand that the support from Israel stems from Christian evanglicalism. There are alot of politicians in the States who believe in the "End of time" scriptures, and those texts state that the Jews must return to their land inorder for Armageddon to occur and the Earth to be "reborn". Most people believe that it is the Jewish lobbies that have managed to keep the US' support for Israel but that simply isn't the case. So if you want to end this support you must remove those that allows their Religion to dictate their political decisions.

Yes, but why are these fruit and nut cases welcoming the end of the world?

Now from one really first class Englishman...

United States of Israel?
The United States of Israel? By ROBERT FISK

"Anyone who criticises Israel's actions or argues that pro-Israel groups have significant influence over US Middle East policy," the authors have written, "...stands a good chance of being labelled an anti-Semite. Indeed, anyone who merely claims that there is an Israeli lobby runs the risk of being charged with anti-Semitism ... Anti-Semitism is something no-one wants to be accused of." Aipac "has repeatedly targeted members of Congress whom it deemed insufficiently friendly to Israel and helped drive them from office, often by channelling money to their opponents."

The mainstream US press and television - as pro-Israeli, biased and gutless as the two academics infer them to be - did not know whether to report on their conclusions or to remain submissively silent. Neither mentioned the trial of two Aipac lobbyists - due to begin next month - who are charged under the Espionage Act with receiving and disseminating classified information provided by a former Pentagon Middle East analyst. The defence team for Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman has indicated that it may call Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley to the stand.

Noam Chomsky, America's foremost moral philosopher and linguistics academic - so critical of Israel that he does not even have a regular newspaper column - does travel widely in the region and acknowledges the ruthlessness of the Israeli lobby. But he suggests that American corporate business has more to do with US policy in the Middle East than Israel's supporters - proving, I suppose, that the Left in the United States has an infinite capacity for fratricide. The cancellation by a New York theatre company of My Name is Rachel Corrie - a play based on the writings of the young American girl crushed to death by an Israeli bulldozer in Gaza in 2003 - has deeply shocked liberal Jewish Americans, not least because it was Jewish American complaints that got the performance pulled.

[McAiden]

[

QUOTE=Pooeypants]People must understand that the support from Israel stems from Christian evanglicalism. There are alot of politicians in the States who believe in the "End of time" scriptures, and those texts state that the Jews must return to their land inorder for Armageddon to occur and the Earth to be "reborn". Most people believe that it is the Jewish lobbies that have managed to keep the US' support for Israel but that simply isn't the case. So if you want to end this support you must remove those that allows their Religion to dictate their political decisions.[/QUOT

That's a new one! Conservative politicians base their support of Israel (against Hezbollough) on some concept whereas the Jewsmust return to their land in order for Armageddon to occur and the Earth to be reborn.

That's outrageous. Armageddon was fought and won 2,000 years ago. The "born again" concept is something more akin to the metamorphis of a caterpiller into a butterfly.

These thngs of which you speak are about on the level of a jihad being the actual killing of someone thought to be an "infidel" when the word is closer to meaning the killing of negative thoughts within oneself. There are some of us who try to educate ourselves about spiritual matters, rather than throw that baby out with the bathwater.

I agree with whoever said America supports Israel because it is more profitable businesswise. Oil, and people with oil having WMD's while at the same time being our enemies. Something like that.

Israel gave up so much land, ripping people from their homes then, look, those thugs had been stockpiling missiles all the while. What would anyone expect from the Israelis?

If I thought G.W.B. actually believed what you said...Oh, God, that is really too terrible to contemplate. Maybe that is how some would like to see him, but I don't think so. Are you speaking of Pat Robertson, Falwell? That's ridiculous.