The U.S. needs to liberate itself from Israel.

[dsanthony]

Quote by: McAiden [ QUOTE=Pooeypants]People must understand that the support from Israel stems from Christian evanglicalism. There are alot of politicians in the States who believe in the "End of time" scriptures, and those texts state that the Jews must return to their land inorder for Armageddon to occur and the Earth to be "reborn". Most people believe that it is the Jewish lobbies that have managed to keep the US' support for Israel but that simply isn't the case. So if you want to end this support you must remove those that allows their Religion to dictate their political decisions.[/QUOT That's a new one! Conservative politicians base their support of Israel (against Hezbollough) on some concept whereas the Jewsmust return to their land in order for Armageddon to occur and the Earth to be reborn. That's outrageous. Armageddon was fought and won 2,000 years ago. The "born again" concept is something more akin to the metamorphis of a caterpiller into a butterfly. These thngs of which you speak are about on the level of a jihad being the actual killing of someone thought to be an "infidel" when the word is closer to meaning the killing of negative thoughts within oneself. There are some of us who try to educate ourselves about spiritual matters, rather than throw that baby out with the bathwater. I agree with whoever said America supports Israel because it is more profitable businesswise. Oil, and people with oil having WMD's while at the same time being our enemies. Something like that. Israel gave up so much land, ripping people from their homes then, look, those thugs had been stockpiling missiles all the while. What would anyone expect from the Israelis? If I thought G.W.B. actually believed what you said...Oh, God, that is really too terrible to contemplate. Maybe that is how some would like to see him, but I don't think so. Are you speaking of Pat Robertson, Falwell? That's ridiculous.

The belief of the religious right that the existence of Israel is a necessary prerequisite to "the second coming" is well documented. They are of course, fools, but that is for another topic.

Their belief in a second coming, and their support of Israel, is much less odious than the secular left's belief that by draining the language of "offensive" words they will be able to control the thoughts of others....

[ise]

dsanthony McAiden That's a new one! Conservative politicians base their support of Israel (against Hezbollah) on some concept whereas the Jews must return to their land in order for Armageddon to occur and the Earth to be reborn. That's outrageous. Armageddon was fought and won 2,000 years ago. The "born again" concept is something more akin to the metamorphose of a caterpillar into a butterfly. The belief of the religious right that the existence of Israel is a necessary prerequisite to "the second coming" is well documented. They are of course, fools, but that is for another topic. .

True. It was a big learning curve for me when I first came across this. It's part of the brilliance of the parasite to convince its host that the host's religion is tied up closely with the 'eye for an eye' brand rather than true Christianity.
.

[ise]

Quote by: underbear1 If I had the choice of trusting my life with an Israeli or a Hezbollah, or Iraqui,or Afghani fighting along side me, the choice would be simple..........It'd be the Israeli.

I'm sure you meant Iraqis,or Afghans.

Some people always make bad choices.

Your choice would cost you for the rest of your life.

The Arabs are most generous. Not so your friends, who do not do a lot of fighting in the US forces, so it will never arise.

[brien]

Quote by: earthling i believe that the only reason jews are in palistine is because god said it was their rightlul land.does this mean that it is their god given right to proceed with genpocide against the palistinian people.no wonder why the muslim race is so anti western,do u believe that influentail jews in america r using their powers of the media empire to infulence the world in propaganda to justify their cause of invading palistine.i cant stand the fact that america is arming and defending the actions of israil,after all arent the jews responsible for the death of jesus.you have to ask yourself the question,"why are the jews the most hated race of people on the planet.please give me your thoughts

My thoughts on what you wrote. Most of it is what John Nance Garner said of the Vice Presidency, when it was offered to him. If you don't know what he said, please look it up and substitute the word "shit" for "spit" to get the true sense of the quote..

[brien]

[QUOTE The U.S. needs to liberate itself from Israel.=peaceofthepie]Until then the Arab people aren't going to take anything we say seriously.[/quote]


However, with this disengagement comes responsibility from its actions over the past 60 years. To be specfic, the US has a moral repsonsibility to convince Europe to take this matter into their own hands. This is a European problem, not a North American problem.
The French have a moral obligation to bring Israel to the peace table. The Russians have a moral responsibilty to bring Iran to the peace table. The Iranians have a moral responsibility to bring Syria and Hezbollah to the peace table. Syria has a moral obligation to bring the secular Shiites to the peace table. The British have a moral obligation to bring Lebanon and the Palestinians (Hamas) to the peace table.

Once this has been done, then a permanent solution can be forged by all concerned parties to construct a lasting peace that respects everyone's right to exist in the Middle East. But since Europe has once again abdicated their responsibility to broker a peace in the Middle East, they will not be without the blood of the innocent victims on their hands as well.

Perhaps an abrupt disengagement in the Middle East would force the hand of the Europeans to act intheir own backyard with its moral obligations towards the legitimate rights of everyone in the Middle East. But perhaps not. And in this case, the Europeans will have to deal with violent solutions to the Middle East problems, sooner rather than later, eventually in its own front yard.

[dsanthony]

Quote by: BigD Quote by: dsanthony The same Arab people who flew planes into the WTC and Pentagon? The same Arab people, one of which killed Bobby Kennedy? The same Arab people who killed Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics? You must be a liberal? Peace in our time, Adolph. Just sign here... The Same Bush family friends/Saudi Royalsthat the boychimp had flown out of the country directly after 911 while all other airtraffic was grounded

If the Royal Family of England had been here at the time of the attack, Bush would have done the same. Sorry if royal and rich people get special treatment. Grow up. If you're saying that, since they were Muslims, they should have been detained, then you're just wrong.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: McAiden That's a new one! Conservative politicians base their support of Israel (against Hezbollough) on some concept whereas the Jewsmust return to their land in order for Armageddon to occur and the Earth to be reborn. That's outrageous. Armageddon was fought and won 2,000 years ago. The "born again" concept is something more akin to the metamorphis of a caterpiller into a butterfly.

No, the End times is meant to hail the second coming of Christ.

If you wanna learn more about End times, click here and here.

This article isn't neutral but if you're interested about US politicians and their End time beliefs, Click here.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: BigD hahahaha yea right.......hahahahahahah..the Saudi Royals Hold bush peanuts size balls in there hands.

This is a debate forum, please appropriately.

[Matt W]

This isn't a chat room, BigD. Debate. Contribute. Make points. :rolleyes:

Do not respond to me within this thread. PM myself or SEan with any questions.

[dsanthony]

[quote=BigD]

Quote by: dsanthony If the Royal Family of England had been here at the time of the attack, Bush would have done the same. Sorry if royal and rich people get special treatment. Grow up. If you're saying that, since they were Muslims, they should have been detained, then you're just wrong.[/QUOTE hahahaha yea right.......hahahahahahah..the Saudi Royals Hold bush peanuts size balls in there hands.

Do you have an intelligent response?

[McAiden]

Quote by: Pooeypants No, the End times is meant to hail the second coming of Christ. If you wanna learn more about End times, click here and here. This article isn't neutral but if you're interested about US politicians and their End time beliefs, Click here.

Oh, come on Pooeypants, George and Laura Bush aren't even Baptists. Some people think churches can distribute funds in a more honest fashion than government agencies. GB thought so but it hasn't really worked - although, I read officials think churches may have done a better job with funds donated after Katrina.

I cannot take the religious stuff seriously. I was brought up in a mildly fundamentalist church, nobody ever mentioned "end times." These are concepts about which the Bible says, "When as a child, I thought as a child." It does go on to say something about "putting away childish things."

Churches used to be supported by funds donated by congregations, ministers taught Bible stuff. T'would be very smart to have churches pay taxes, as they are seemingly no longer churches. What can we do, even our churches are greedy and power-hungry!

[ise]

McAiden Oh, come on Pooeypants, George and Laura Bush aren't even Baptists. Some people think churches can distribute funds in a more honest fashion than government agencies. GB thought so but it hasn't really worked - although, I read officials think churches may have done a better job with funds donated after Katrina. I cannot take the religious stuff seriously. I was brought up in a mildly fundamentalist church, nobody ever mentioned "end times." These are concepts about which the Bible says, "When as a child, I thought as a child." It does go on to say something about "putting away childish things." Churches used to be supported by funds donated by congregations, ministers taught Bible stuff. T'would be very smart to have churches pay taxes, as they are seemingly no longer churches. What can we do, even our churches are greedy and power-hungry!

Real seperation of church and state:-

Donation, contributions etc to a church are NOT allowed as tax deductions! Why should the state pay for your beliefs?
No need to have churches pay taxes. Very simple.

[McAiden]

Uh, real separation of church and state would be having the ministers, priests, etc., teach Bible matters and keep politics out of church. Stop telling their congregations how to vote.

Sorry, I was not clear.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: peaceofthepie The U.S. needs to liberate itself from Israel. Until then the Arab people aren't going to take anything we say seriously.

Is that the argument ?

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: ise Real seperation of church and state:- Donation, contributions etc to a church are NOT allowed as tax deductions! Why should the state pay for your beliefs? No need to have churches pay taxes. Very simple.

Just as much if not more of church donations and contributions are going to helping people like the poor more so than any other private secular charity that by law only has to give away 7% or so of the donations they take in anually. If we crack down on tax deductions we better crack down on secular charities as well.

[ise]

McAiden Uh, real separation of church and state would be having the ministers, priests, etc., teach Bible matters and keep politics out of church. Stop telling their congregations how to vote. Sorry, I was not clear.

If there was any lessening of freedom of speech then allow ministers but not encourage them to tell their congregations how to vote. A God fearing minister should want to keep politics out of church.

My impression with all the churches is that religion is very profitable in America. It is another 'big business'. They seem to function more like clubs than my expectation of religion.

If you truely believe then pay with no tax deduction. If not a believer, then don't pay.

[ise]

Chaossaber314 Just as much if not more of church donations and contributions are going to helping people like the poor more so than any other private secular charity that by law only has to give away 7% or so of the donations they take in anually. If we crack down on tax deductions we better crack down on secular charities as well.

Makes perfect sense.

[Mia]

Quote by: Isherwood I never realized that there are less than 50 Arabs in the world. Jeez, I see your point. :rolleyes:

I was thinking the same thing. How stupid of us to forget!

[Mia]

Quote by: earthling i believe that the only reason jews are in palistine is because god said it was their rightlul land.does this mean that it is their god given right to proceed with genpocide against the palistinian people.no wonder why the muslim race is so anti western,do u believe that influentail jews in america r using their powers of the media empire to infulence the world in propaganda to justify their cause of invading palistine.i cant stand the fact that america is arming and defending the actions of israil,after all arent the jews responsible for the death of jesus.you have to ask yourself the question,"why are the jews the most hated race of people on the planet.please give me your thoughts

I don't think Jews are the most hated race on the planet. In fact, I think that Muslim Arabs are at the bottom of that totem pole in terms of prejudice and hate. ISRAEL, on the other hand, is another matter and your remarks about Jews are racist and not permitted here.

They killed Jesus *oh please* don't say that stupid crap.

[Mia]

Quote by: Protostar I support cutting all aid and support to Israel. They have been an albatross around this countrys neck ever since we started supporting it. Israel benefits the US zilch; just a financial blackhole into which to waste taxpayer dollars. Spend taxpayer dollars in America and thats it. Supporting Israel is the primary reason why the Arabs hate us, that and the fact how we always meddle in their affairs and support dictators (when they are are lapdogs that is).

I believe we had to support Israel to survive, but for too long now we have supported them to be genocidal maniacs and we are criminals to help them now.

Long ago, we could have brokered a peace deal by witholding funds and other support until Israel came to reason.

The truth is we want what they want and that's why we allow and nurture it.

We want a major stronghold in the region and will not be satisfied until we go to war or buy off every country over there and get our oil.