Sketchiness on Wikipedia

[Autolykos]

Quote by: bishop discrimination impedes on the constitutional rights of other americans.. you don't have a right to discriminate, and being able to discriminate on the basis of skin color is a pitiful example of what it means to exercise liberty.

Everyone is free to not do something. Discrimination means not associating with someone for any reason (yes, including race, gender, etc.). Thus, discrimination is everywhere, and no amount of government proclamations will erase that fact. To speak of the "right" to discriminate is meaningless, as people are simply free to do so.

Quote by: bishop or, i could just use your logic and say that pro-lifers want the state to have dominion over a woman's body.

Perhaps I should create a new law: As a political discussion grows longer, the probability that abortion will be brought up approaches one. :rolleyes:

- Rob

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: bishop it is her body, not the state's..

But we're not discussing her body, we're discussing the body of the child.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: bishop so, liberals are the ones who support the patiot act, which is an undeniable restriction on civil liberties?

Agreed, that's basically the only pro-liberty stance that liberals are taking these days. Although if true, that means that most of the Dem's in Congress aren't "liberal", since they voted for it.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: McAiden bishop, it's difficult to think liberals actually think the Patriot Act "limits freedom of Americans" by enlarging the police state. We are at war, and liberals hate Bush. They want him to fail, period. So, are liberals exposing our war secrets to punish Bush? It just really does seem that's true.

Well I can't speak for liberals or their motivations, but as a libertarian I, for one, oppose the Patriot Act (or at least certain provisions of it) and its enlargement of our police state.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Autolykos How does "liberty of opportunity" exist?

It's a nice little euphemism, isn't it? It really means "standardization of opportunity".

[CliveStaples]

Quote by: MF It's a nice little euphemism, isn't it? It really means "standardization of opportunity".

It's also a lie. Equality of opportunity means that the playing field is level, not that shorter people get shorter hoops, or that fast racers get longer tracks than slow racers.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: McAiden Liberals are very spoiled children of the 1960's who made a decision, based primarily on the support of their college instructors, to protest just about everything and every way America lived: Chomsky is still their Bible today.

Thanks for illustrating my point about liberals being defined by people who dislike them. Your definition of liberals is irrelevant as it is tainted by extreme bias.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Ok, here we go:

"American liberalism—that is, liberalism in the United States of America—is a broad political and philosophical mindset, favoring what it identifies as "liberty", and opposing restrictions on this "liberty", whether they come from established religion, from government regulation, from the existing class structure, or from multi-national corporations."

We'll see how long that lasts. (Watch it be one of you who changes it back)

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: CliveStaples It's also a lie. Equality of opportunity means that the playing field is level, not that shorter people get shorter hoops, or that fast racers get longer tracks than slow racers.

A wonderfully astute quotable quote.


I don't think I have ever seen the entire premise debunked in so few syllables before.

[bishop]

that sounds more like a definition of american libertarianism morgan...

can you define the term without referring to the platforms of any political party?

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: bishop that sounds more like a definition of american libertarianism morgan...

Hilarious.

Quote by: bishop can you define the term without referring to the platforms of any political party?

I prefer not to. As an outside observer, it's much easier to say what liberalism isn't than what it is.

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman American Liberalism is primarily about material equality, among other things. Achieving material equality requires extensive and ongoing control over citizen's personal and financial matters by the government.

And quite where did you draw such laughable conclusions? If you replaced 'liberalism' with say 'Marxist Leninism', it maybe a thesis more worthy of serious consideration.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Chris the Chees And quite where did you draw such laughable conclusions?

By speaking with many self-described liberals. Note, Chris that this is about American Liberalism, not the european variety. I don't call the Democrats "communists" for no reason. Just read their party platforms.

[Radioactive Man]

The new definition is still there, but now we need to work on another travesty. At the bottom of the article they list some "notable American liberal thinkers." In this list they lump together such great American advocates of freedom as James Madison and Thomas Jefferson along with the dregs of American poilitics such as Franklin Roosevelt and Teddy "Need a Lift?" Kennedy.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman Quote by: bishop it is her body, not the state's.. But we're not discussing her body, we're discussing the body of the child.

I think thats where you go wrong. The fetus is not an individual/independant life form. If it were, there wouldnt be any issue about liberating the fetus early. It could go on about its business of scavenging for food if the mother rejected it. And there may be a perfectly viable reason for the mother to not want the little intruder.

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman By speaking with many self-described liberals. Note, Chris that this is about American Liberalism, not the european variety. I don't call the Democrats "communists" for no reason. Just read their party platforms.

I'm sure you do have a reasons, never the less you are incorrect. They are democrats and support and vote for a party with stated goals and policies, none of which make them even remotely close to communists.

[belverron]

How does "liberty of opportunity" exist?

I meant liberty in the form of opportunity.

[rmnunez]

The lefty loser in Mexico's presidential elections has cited from Wikipedia in his legal challenge before the Electoral Court disputing the results, reference to Stalin too.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel I think thats where you go wrong. The fetus is not an individual/independant life form.

Obviously, pro-lifers disagree with that statement. Also, you again make the mistake of assuming that I am pro-life.

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel If it were, there wouldnt be any issue about liberating the fetus early. It could go on about its business of scavenging for food if the mother rejected it.

Can a newborn baby "scavenge for food on its own"? Obviously not. A child isn't really independent until they're at least 6. Is that the age at which you think abortion should be illegal?

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: belverron I meant liberty in the form of opportunity.

Which is redundant. If you have liberty, you have opportunity.