THIS is Government Education

[zynner]

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0717-22.htm

Florida Legislature...took bold action to become the first state to outlaw historical interpretation in public schools ... Florida’s lawmakers are not only prescribing a specific view of US history that must be taught... but are trying to legislate out of existence any ideas to the contrary. ... In fact, the law attempts to suppress discussion of the very idea that history is interpretation.

Makes no difference that it happens to be Republicans doing this. Democrats do the same exact thing. Public education is run by people who make political decisions to indoctrinate children, not educational decisions to help children learn in the best ways possible.

~ zynner

[Jack]

Amazing, simply amazing. And here I considered the "thought police" a metaphor. I guess I should have been taking it literally.

[underbear1]

Frightening concept, I wonder who's perspective on History will be taught, might it be euro-centric, pro Judeo-Christian, misogynist, racist, and homophobic one? It wasn't until college level that I was taught in various departments, Native American Studies, and Women's Studies courses that the version I was taught in K-12 wasn't the full story, just the one the powerful or victors wrote.

[GodBlessAmerica]

This is why people home school or send kids to private school if they can.

To hell with the teacher's unions, give people vouchers and let them go to where they want to.

The way I see it, here in CA legals in public school cost $7000 a year, the handicapped get $50,000 a year and illegals cost us $14,000 per child.

Get the illegals out of our regular system and put them under tents somewhere in mass.
Continue the handicapped where ever they can do best.
Give vouchers for half the value of the $7000 which would be up to $3500 a year and put the rest back in the general budget.
Dismiss the large portion off the teacher's union that won't be needed and watch education in America prosper to much higher levels IMO.

[Clarence]

...and burn all the books

[dsanthony]

Quote by: zynner http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0717-22.htm Florida Legislature...took bold action to become the first state to outlaw historical interpretation in public schools ... Florida’s lawmakers are not only prescribing a specific view of US history that must be taught... but are trying to legislate out of existence any ideas to the contrary. ... In fact, the law attempts to suppress discussion of the very idea that history is interpretation. Makes no difference that it happens to be Republicans doing this. Democrats do the same exact thing. Public education is run by people who make political decisions to indoctrinate children, not educational decisions to help children learn in the best ways possible. ~ zynner

I've done grad work in history, and I know the agenda of the "academic" circles is to weaken or destroy any sense of patriotism or pride in America. Their radical interpretation of history marks as heroic the actions of almost any non-white and non-christian groups in conflict with the US or Europe. They overlook the greatest abominations and violence in other cultures, and focus on any flaws or mistreatment at the hands of American or Europeans.

THere is nothing wrong with keeping alive the traditions of American culture... traditions which these leftist academics seek to destroy. The "thought police" are on the left... forcing a radical and largely anti-American view of history on children too naive and inexperienced to question their views.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: zynner Democrats do the same exact thing.

Please provide three specific examples with links that include dates, locations, incidents and which democrats were responsible or retract this statement.

I'm sick to death of people lumping the dems in with the republicans.

[zynner]

Quote by: Zhavric Please provide three specific examples with links that include dates, locations, incidents and which democrats were responsible or retract this statement. I'm sick to death of people lumping the dems in with the republicans.

No, I won't jump through those kinds of hoops for you. The evidence is everywhere, since the democrats have controlled education for decades now, especially at the university level.

You can start your search by reading the post directly above yours.

~ zynner

[underbear1]

Quote by: dsanthony Quote by: zynner http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0717-22.htm Florida Legislature...took bold action to become the first state to outlaw historical interpretation in public schools ... Florida’s lawmakers are not only prescribing a specific view of US history that must be taught... but are trying to legislate out of existence any ideas to the contrary. ... In fact, the law attempts to suppress discussion of the very idea that history is interpretation. Makes no difference that it happens to be Republicans doing this. Democrats do the same exact thing. Public education is run by people who make political decisions to indoctrinate children, not educational decisions to help children learn in the best ways possible. ~ zynner I've done grad work in history, and I know the agenda of the "academic" circles is to weaken or destroy any sense of patriotism or pride in America. Their radical interpretation of history marks as heroic the actions of almost any non-white and non-christian groups in conflict with the US or Europe. They overlook the greatest abominations and violence in other cultures, and focus on any flaws or mistreatment at the hands of American or Europeans. THere is nothing wrong with keeping alive the traditions of American culture... traditions which these leftist academics seek to destroy. The "thought police" are on the left... forcing a radical and largely anti-American view of history on children too naive and inexperienced to question their views.

While burning the books, lock up those dangerous professors and students..............God, where have I heard that before?..........oh yeah,in every G*D DAMN totalitarian state, from Hitler to Stalin, and every South American revolution.

[underbear1]

"The "thought police" are on the left... forcing a radical and largely anti-American view of history on children too naive and inexperienced to question their views. "

Would that include not teaching about women's contributions to American History, Abigail Adams and Susan B.Anthony were not even mentioned in the education I received in the 50's, and they sure as hell didn't mention Sojourner Truth, or the underground railroad? They also neglercted to mention settlers giving small pox infected blankets to Native Americans, primarily to elderly, women and children. What you define as anti-American is what I define as telling ALL the history flaws and all, so our children grow up knowing the dangers governments of any stripe can commit against their citizens.

[Samildanach]

While burning the books, lock up those dangerous professors and students..............God, where have I heard that before?..........oh yeah,in every G*D DAMN totalitarian state, from Hitler to Stalin, and every South American revolution.

Don't forget China and Tiananmin square.

[brien]

Quote by: zynner http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0717-22.htm Makes no difference that it happens to be Republicans doing this. Democrats do the same exact thing. Public education is run by people who make political decisions to indoctrinate children, not educational decisions to help children learn in the best ways possible. ~ zynner

So what else would you expect from government schools? This is why they like to call them "public" schools" so they can dupe the public into thinking they have the students' best interests in mind. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The Florida legislature is specifically targeting the teaching of History. One problem we encounter is that History is a "required" course to graduate. I have not been in any schools that don't have specific agendas that the student doesn't have to spit back what the instructor wants them to learn. This is how learing is structured in the government schools.

The problem becomes, what do the parents of the school children want their children to learn. They use the example of Europeans coming to the American continent in the 17th century and go on to say "did they commit genocide when the Indiginous people began to die off"? Well this is a loaded question in that one can say yes and to some degree no. Initially, it was the disease that brought decimation upon the Indians. But later it was systematic genocide. Florida is seeking to squash the Genocide aspect because it puts the government in a shameful position. Well too bad. Older children need to be able to make informed decisions.

The most important aspect of history is that it is taught to a specific age group in a manner in which they understand. You don't teach 4th graders History the same way you teach 12th graders History. Therefore you teach 4th graders that Europeans came to America in the 17th Century but you leave it to the 12th grade to argue the reasons for the decimation of the Indians.

This is another powerful argument for returning school control back to the community so that it can set its own standards for education. Privatising schools will allow for freedom of choice. If you don't want you kid being indoctrinated by government school agenda, then you as a parent, should be able to take the tax money devoted to your child and use it to buy a space in a school that is more acceptable to your ideology. But the Unions and the government schools are dead set against this because they know they will loose the monopoly they have over the community when it comes to education. Meanwhile, many of these hypocrites place their children in private schools that most people in the community can't afford. Typical elitist behavior.

The sooner the government gets out of the business of education, the sooner schools will get down to the business of placing the student first, and the government and it functionaries behind the most important aspect of education, the welfare of the student.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: zynner http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0717-22.htm Makes no difference that it happens to be Republicans doing this. Democrats do the same exact thing.

The difference between Democrats vs. Republicans :
- banner
- emblem
- membership fee, the "most important" :-)))
- feeling
- political position, the most crucial one :-)))
- ect.
:-)))

[brien]

Quote by: Rainbow The difference between Democrats vs. Republicans : - banner - emblem - membership fee, the "most important" :-))) - feeling - political position, the most crucial one :-))) - ect. :-)))

Repeat after me gang, they are called REPUBLICRATS

[bishop]

Quote by: Zhavric Quote by: zynner Democrats do the same exact thing. Please provide three specific examples with links that include dates, locations, incidents and which democrats were responsible or retract this statement. I'm sick to death of people lumping the dems in with the republicans.

i was "taught" in college that if you're opposed to affirmative action, then you're a racist.. not only did the professor state this - but so too did the textbook.

there's an example for you to chew on.

[brien]

Quote by: Zhavric Please provide three specific examples with links that include dates, locations, incidents and which democrats were responsible or retract this statement. I'm sick to death of people lumping the dems in with the republicans.

One: The vote to go to war in Iraq.

Two: The impositon of the Income Tax Ammendment XVI

Three: The Establishment of Social Security and the New Deal

Four: The Great Society and the establishment of the Social Welfare system.


Example: A Democrat that acts like a Republican Sen Joe Lieberman

Example: A Republican that acts like a Democrat: Sen Lincoln Chaffe


Do you really require links for these?

I am sick to death of Republicans saying they are the party of smaller governement and the government has grown even bigger since they hold power.

I am sick to death of Democrats saying they are the party for the working class and then raising taxes and increasing entitlements at their expense.

The Republicrats are merely a bunch of two faced hypocritical lying politicians whose only concerns are to keep their own sorry asses in office.

I am sick to death of the entire bunch of them.

[Captain Chaos]

I just want to point something out...

The agenda of public schools does not merely reflect the will of politicians. Those politicans are elected. The agenda of public schools reflects the will of the people who voted for those politicians. Often times, the will of the voting public is not so nice.

Publicly funded private schools (like, what charter schools should be) give a lot more local control over curriculum - but that is not necessarily a good thing. Where I live, too much local control would have the Bible being taught as the word of god - even though I would rather have my testicles chewed off than have such evil nonsense be taught to my child.

No matter how you cut it, in a representative democracy, the will of the people will hold sway. You can go against the tide, but it takes work and effort.

[dsanthony]

Quote by: underbear1 Quote by: dsanthony Quote by: zynner http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0717-22.htm Florida Legislature...took bold action to become the first state to outlaw historical interpretation in public schools ... Florida’s lawmakers are not only prescribing a specific view of US history that must be taught... but are trying to legislate out of existence any ideas to the contrary. ... In fact, the law attempts to suppress discussion of the very idea that history is interpretation. Makes no difference that it happens to be Republicans doing this. Democrats do the same exact thing. Public education is run by people who make political decisions to indoctrinate children, not educational decisions to help children learn in the best ways possible. ~ zynner I've done grad work in history, and I know the agenda of the "academic" circles is to weaken or destroy any sense of patriotism or pride in America. Their radical interpretation of history marks as heroic the actions of almost any non-white and non-christian groups in conflict with the US or Europe. They overlook the greatest abominations and violence in other cultures, and focus on any flaws or mistreatment at the hands of American or Europeans. THere is nothing wrong with keeping alive the traditions of American culture... traditions which these leftist academics seek to destroy. The "thought police" are on the left... forcing a radical and largely anti-American view of history on children too naive and inexperienced to question their views. While burning the books, lock up those dangerous professors and students..............God, where have I heard that before?..........oh yeah,in every G*D DAMN totalitarian state, from Hitler to Stalin, and every South American revolution.

Your hysteria shows that your dogma is threatened. No one is talking about banning or burning books, or arresting professors (though that might not be a bad idea).. we're talking about parents being able to control what their minor children are taught.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: dsanthony No one is talking about banning or burning books, or arresting professors (though that might not be a bad idea).. we're talking about parents being able to control what their minor children are taught.

How would parents be able to control that?

[dsanthony]

Quote by: bishop Quote by: Zhavric Quote by: zynner Democrats do the same exact thing. Please provide three specific examples with links that include dates, locations, incidents and which democrats were responsible or retract this statement. I'm sick to death of people lumping the dems in with the republicans. i was "taught" in college that if you're opposed to affirmative action, then you're a racist.. not only did the professor state this - but so too did the textbook. there's an example for you to chew on.

Exactly. The "thought police" are clearly on the left. Anyone who disagrees with their views on race is a racist, anyone who disagrees with their views on homosexuality is homophobic... the entire PC code is an attempt to control language, and thereby control thought. They are a danger to freedom.