County joins lawsuit on photo requirement (Dems hate efforts to fight election fraud)

[GodBlessAmerica]

County joins lawsuit on photo requirement

JEFFERSON CITY | - Jackson County Executive Katheryn Shields and other Democrats filed a legal challenge Monday to a new Missouri law that requires voters to show photo identification at the polls.

The law, which Gov. Matt Blunt signed June 14, requires voters in the Nov. 7 general election to present a driver’s license or some other government-issued photo identification.

Under previous law, voters had to present identification, but it did not have to be a driver’s license or other form of photo ID.

It could have been a copy of an electric bill, a bank statement, a paycheck or a voter ID card issued by local election authorities.

Looks like the Democrats want to keep dead people voting to keep their stranglehold on counties.
Shouldn't we really identify who it is that is voting and purge all dead and illegal people out of the process?

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica Looks like the Democrats want to keep dead people voting to keep their stranglehold on counties. Shouldn't we really identify who it is that is voting and purge all dead and illegal people out of the process?

Weak, man, really weak. If George Bush stood on the White House lawn and raped a woman in front of her kids with a high school marching band watching, you'd try to spin it to make him look good.

Hello... They're suing because poor people often don't have photo ID's. Photo ID's cost money, and therefore would amount to a "poll tax" meaning that no one who couldn't afford a photo ID would be able to vote. And guess who poor people usually vote for? Right. So guess why Republicans support this measure? Right.

::note - i'm not a Democrat either, I just hate when someone makes a completely idiotic spin on something that is so obvious. ::

[GodBlessAmerica]

Then the poor had better be given the $10 chance to get the state ID card or something, because if you don't make people really identify themselves you are going to get bunches of fraud and stuffing of the ballot box.

There has to be a stable minimum standard.
Electric bills would not be that standard.

[underbear1]

Libertarians and some of the most radical right wingers are also deathly against a national ID card, so I'd hardly catagorize this as a democrat issue.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: underbear1 Libertarians and some of the most radical right wingers are also deathly against a national ID card, so I'd hardly catagorize this as a democrat issue.

Libertarians are big social liberals that back most vices and of course illegal drugs.
They also want small government seemingly to the point of almost NO government and want open borders. They shut up on the open borders after 9/11 though.

Not very conservative IMO.
Many conservatives think they are a joke.

[underbear1]

How about the NRA, they conservative enough for ya, Sparky? They are also against National Registrations.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: underbear1 How about the NRA, they conservative enough for ya, Sparky? They are also against National Registrations.

I think they are always against national registrations of Guns, not IDs to prevent fraud in voting.

The difference is they are worried at some point that liberals will order in a state all guns removed from citizens and that criminals and government would leave the people defenseless.

I would be surprised if the NRA would be against identity fraud by illegals and others regarding a vote in a national election.

[underbear1]

http://www.geeknewscentral.com/archives/003778.html

February 11, 2005
National ID Card May Be Right Around the Corner
The U.S. House of Representatives approved on Thursday a sweeping set of rules aimed at forcing states to issue all adults federally approved electronic ID cards, including driver's licenses. The measure, called the Real ID Act, says that driver's licenses and other ID cards must include a digital photograph, anticounterfeiting features and undefined "machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements" that could include a magnetic strip or RFID tag. The Department of Homeland Security would be charged with drafting the details of the regulation. Your Social Security Number would be linked to the cards in order to make certain of your ID and to help to cut down on identity theft. You would need the card to buy guns and receive driver licenses. This was unusual that both the ACLU and the NRA were on the same side, both against the measure. At least they don’t force us all to have embedded microchips.

This had NOTHING to do with gun registration, it was merely a photo ID.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: underbear1 http://www.geeknewscentral.com/archives/003778.html February 11, 2005 National ID Card May Be Right Around the Corner The U.S. House of Representatives approved on Thursday a sweeping set of rules aimed at forcing states to issue all adults federally approved electronic ID cards, including driver's licenses. The measure, called the Real ID Act, says that driver's licenses and other ID cards must include a digital photograph, anticounterfeiting features and undefined "machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements" that could include a magnetic strip or RFID tag. The Department of Homeland Security would be charged with drafting the details of the regulation. Your Social Security Number would be linked to the cards in order to make certain of your ID and to help to cut down on identity theft. You would need the card to buy guns and receive driver licenses. This was unusual that both the ACLU and the NRA were on the same side, both against the measure. At least they don’t force us all to have embedded microchips. This had NOTHING to do with gun registration, it was merely a photo ID.

Wow, thanks a lot for that article, I'm going to read up on that because it brings up so many issues.
The national ID card I thought I remember was for immigration issues, they claimed to be able to make one that was fraud proof which would be a joke.
Wonder if this was the same one?

IMO, what you do is data base everyone with their picture, social security number, and state ID number. Maybe you consider fingerprinting all the citizens, but for sure anyone illegal here or anyone convicted of a crime should do the above and should be made to give DNA as well.

Thanks for that article, that is darn interesting and I have not seen that.
I'm going to look up the reasoning behind this between he two parties.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica Libertarians are big social liberals that back most vices and of course illegal drugs. They also want small government seemingly to the point of almost NO government and want open borders. They shut up on the open borders after 9/11 though. Not very conservative IMO. Many conservatives think they are a joke.

Holy crap, I am trying so hard not to completely lash out at the stupidness of this entire post because I really don't like to go all ad hominem on people.

Libertarians do not "back" vices. What they say is that prohibition of vices works as well as Prohibition of alcohol did, which is to say not at all.

Libertarians did not "shut up" on open borders after 9/11. Libertarians like myself still favor open borders.

"Not very conservative" No shit sherlock, libertarian is not conservative, they are two different political philosophies. If you read a little you'd find out there is more out there than just "conservative" and "liberal".

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Holy crap, I am trying so hard not to completely lash out at the stupidness of this entire post because I really don't like to go all ad homonym on people. Libertarians do not "back" vices. What they say is that prohibition of vices works as well as Prohibition of alcohol did, which is to say not at all. Libertarians did not "shut up" on open borders after 9/11. Libertarians like myself still favor open borders. "Not very conservative" No shit sherlock, libertarian is not conservative, they are two different political philosophies. If you read a little you'd find out there is more out there than just "conservative" and "liberal".

This is all just an opinion, but I don't think you said anything any different than I did, you just said the same thing in Libertarian speak.

I once had a thread elsewhere where I was pointing out how pathetic and bad drug use was and I had libertarians telling me about their favorite drug use, even in front of their children.

I agree with you, they are not conservative.

From what I read of them, they come off as socially liberal and politically they lean heavily toward anarchy with their do what feels good philosophy.

They tend to love to name themselves after dead patriots which IMO probably have those dead patriots rolling in their graves.

They can be entertaining, but I can't take them very seriously anymore.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Though the tread was about Democrats blocking proper ID by voters to prevent fraud, in response to the NRA question, read below...

Quote by: underbear1 http://www.geeknewscentral.com/archives/003778.html February 11, 2005 National ID Card May Be Right Around the Corner The U.S. House of Representatives approved on Thursday a sweeping set of rules aimed at forcing states to issue all adults federally approved electronic ID cards, including driver's licenses. The measure, called the Real ID Act, says that driver's licenses and other ID cards must include a digital photograph, anticounterfeiting features and undefined "machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements" that could include a magnetic strip or RFID tag. The Department of Homeland Security would be charged with drafting the details of the regulation. Your Social Security Number would be linked to the cards in order to make certain of your ID and to help to cut down on identity theft. You would need the card to buy guns and receive driver licenses. This was unusual that both the ACLU and the NRA were on the same side, both against the measure. At least they don’t force us all to have embedded microchips. This had NOTHING to do with gun registration, it was merely a photo ID.

Thanks again for your article, here is what a little research came up with.

The NRA position is this regarding a national ID card:
Standardization of driver’s licenses has long been recognized as a bureaucratic back-door to implementation of a national ID card. With its required linking of databases and ability of the Secretary of Homeland Security to require a prescribed format, HR 418 takes us well along that road. Concerns are further heightened when the bill fails to even provide lip service to privacy concerns, and proposes to share all of our data on the driver’s license database with Canada and Mexico.
That is a biggy, people could have their credit messed with, maybe bank accounts stolen and so forth, so the NRA is worried about the fact that privacy of the information isn't even taken up by the bill.
Makes sense to me if you think about it from their point of view.

Regarding votes being required to show a valid official type of photo ID, to me that makes common sense to prevent voter's fraud.

Maybe wave the $10 fee for the state ID card if they are too poor to pay it.
If they can't verify who they are to a reasonable standard though, that makes the elections to ripe for all kinds of fraud and that does need to be addressed for sure.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: underbear1 http://www.geeknewscentral.com/archives/003778.html

The NRA position was for the following reason by the way.

the bill fails to even provide lip service to privacy concerns, and proposes to share all of our data on the driver’s license database with Canada and Mexico.

Democrats seem more in it to keep unidentified people voting. Needs to somehow be remedied IMO.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica This is all just an opinion, but I don't think you said anything any different than I did, you just said the same thing in Libertarian speak. I once had a thread elsewhere where I was pointing out how pathetic and bad drug use was and I had libertarians telling me about their favorite drug use, even in front of their children. I agree with you, they are not conservative. From what I read of them, they come off as socially liberal and politically they lean heavily toward anarchy with their do what feels good philosophy.

This just illustrates why you shouldn't be addressing this subject, other than to profess your ignorance of the topic at hand.


Libertarian should be defined as fiscally conservative, and socially libertarian. ( Libertarian with a small L, as in the opposite of authoritarian. )


I am also consistantly finding that many God's advocates are at odds with one of God's most benevolent policies, that of "free will". Far too many hard core religious people seem OK legislating their opposition into a corner with draconian policies so that people lose the opportunity to exercise that free will that God so graciously provided.


What do you have against people being able to decide for themselves how to live? ( The libertarian philosophy )


Perhaps you could quote from the bible where God instructs His followers to become political animals, and legislate their view of reality upon their less willing neighbors? See, I was always under the impression that politics was not the type of thing God's true followers were concerned about, with that dedication to God, and all.

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica They tend to love to name themselves after dead patriots which IMO probably have those dead patriots rolling in their graves. They can be entertaining, but I can't take them very seriously anymore.

Judge not, lest Ye be judged...


With a mind so clouded by religious propaganda, I'm not surprised that a philosophy of logic, and reason does not appeal to your way of thinking. See, the liberarian philosophy was born in the Age of Enlightenment, so that must be quite at odds with the reality you are out to create for everybody.


I am familiar with the "turn the other cheek" part of the bible, but again, where in the bible can I find the "legislate ones opposition into the corner with draconian, authoritarian policies" sermon?

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Libertarian should be defined as fiscally conservative, and socially libertarian. ( Libertarian with a small L, as in the opposite of authoritarian. )

I've read Libertarians libertarians various places and they post socially liberal and fiscally they pretty much want no government.
I've heard many argue about how people should be allowed to starve and die on the streets before and to me their views on the government side are anarchist like more than anything.

They seem to love all the vices and often side with the ACLU which in my book makes them liberal on the social side

That is my opinion from years of reading their stuff.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Weak, man, really weak. If George Bush stood on the White House lawn and raped a woman in front of her kids with a high school marching band watching, you'd try to spin it to make him look good. Hello... They're suing because poor people often don't have photo ID's. Photo ID's cost money, and therefore would amount to a "poll tax" meaning that no one who couldn't afford a photo ID would be able to vote. And guess who poor people usually vote for? Right. So guess why Republicans support this measure? Right. ::note - i'm not a Democrat either, I just hate when someone makes a completely idiotic spin on something that is so obvious. ::

Most people have driver's licenses, poor or not. This isn't the dark ages with poor people. Poor people have many of the same things average citizens have just possibly a smaller amount.

We have to show our driver's license at the polls. I see absolutely no big deal. It makes sense. There are too many ways for people to con now a days, so every little bit of proof who you are helps.

I think, and this is just an observation, a lot of poor people don't vote. A lot of people in general don't vote, but poor people do even less so. I'm sure that the Dem's will pay for the photo ID's if they have to to get the vote out. They hand out cigarettes, and pay people to drive them to the polls, so they'll pay for photo ID's.

[Chaossaber314]

How many people poor enough that they can't afford to spend the 9-10 dollars on an ID are even concerned with politics in the first place? If you're that destitute I think finding food and shelter would be higher up on your "to do" list than selecting which guy will screw you over less.

[Mia]

I don't buy that there are people so poor they are not getting photo ID's.

[Chaossaber314]

There are people that really are that poor, I just don't think they're sitting around in the park going, "Gee, with Tuesday coming up I better go to my local polling place and vote on the state auditor."

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica .....the bill fails to even provide lip service to privacy concerns, and proposes to share all of our data on the driver’s license database with Canada and Mexico.[/i] That is a biggy, people could have their credit messed with, maybe bank accounts stolen and so forth, so the NRA is worried about the fact that privacy of the information isn't even taken up by the bill.

Yeah, but it makes state-sponsored "monitoring" (read:spying on) of citizens so much easier.